Rope length question - when is 60 m. "too long"?

[Jud]

I'm reading in Houston and Cosley's nice book "Alpine Climbing: Techniques to Take You Higher" that they're a bit surprised at how long ropes have gotten in recent years...it seems that they used to be sold rather shorter, whereas 60 meters is common now, almost the standard (and they expect them to get longer!).

 

If someone was looking for ways to shave weight for alpine routes that you knew didn't "need" a long rope, would cutting 10 m off a 60m rope be dumb...i.e., I'm wondering how to trade off the utility of having a longer rope vs. weight savings. Cosley/Houston, experienced guides, seem to feel that 60 meters is a pretty long rope for most alpine situations (and even go shorter if they know for sure the route they'll guide or climb doesn't need more than, say, a 30 meter rope).

 

Sorry if this seems dumb...looking at the Steve House interview about Nanga Parbat, he and Vince Anderson took a 50 meter rope, so it made me wonder. I'm no Steve House, of course, but would 50 meters generally be fine? (They also had a 55 meter 5mm rope for use on rappel.)

 

 

[rob]

I bet the FAs of most classic alpine routes in the cascades were done on 50m (or less) ropes. I just kinda pulled that out of my ass, but it seems like a realistic assumption.

 

How much weight would you save? Most single ropes are like, what, 65 grams/meter? So you save like 23 ounces with a 50m vs 60m rope? I guess that's signifigant.

 

Why would you chop 10 meters off? Why not just buy a 50? I see them for sale all the time, usually cheaper too. I own a 50m which is pretty new.

[Pro Mountain Sports]

PMS is still stocking the 50m lengths, both single and half ropes. They are getting harder to find, but we still have them for now anyway.

 

We also have some nice 70m ropes, that you can cut to make two shorter ropes. Make one 30m and one 40m, or two 35m.

[Jud]

Thanks for the info/opinions...food for thought.

 

As far as chopping off 10m from a 60m rope...it's only b/c I've just gotten a good deal on a cheap dry treated 60m rope...and I started thinking to myself, "damn, I wonder if I should've bought a shorter rope...!" Probably I should just ignore the "extra weight" of the 10m and find other ways to shave weight, which is undoubtedly easy to do with other gear...after all, as you say, 60-65 g per meter ain't much!

 

Moreover, having a shorter 50m rope means it would be a bit problematic cragging here in Squamish (where there are some long routes/pitches, I understand).

[hafilax]

60m ropes are useful in Squamish for linking pitches. I've linked the first and second 2 pitches on Dierdre and linked a few on Angles Crest. I'm sure there's other places to do it as well.

[Jud]

60m ropes are useful in Squamish for linking pitches. I've linked the first and second 2 pitches on Dierdre and linked a few on Angles Crest. I'm sure there's other places to do it as well.

 

Thanks for the insight. But what exactly do you mean by "linking" pitches? Is the implication that with a rope shorter than 60 m, you wouldn't be able to climb Deidre (etc.)? (I.e., wouldn't be able to reach the next anchor).

[TrogdortheBurninator]

linking pitches means climbing two or more pitches as one "long" pitch.

[Jud]

linking pitches means climbing two or more pitches as one "long" pitch.

 

The idea being to be able to go faster, since you don't have to stop at the "regular" (i.e., bolted, or not) anchor? Is that why you'd want to link pitches?

[Crillz]

What type(s) of routes are you actually interested in?

[Dannible]

linking pitches means climbing two or more pitches as one "long" pitch.

 

The idea being to be able to go faster, since you don't have to stop at the "regular" (i.e., bolted, or not) anchor? Is that why you'd want to link pitches?

 

Pretty much, two pitches for the price of one.

 

It seems like I find myself using all of a 60 meter rope pretty often on longer alpine and multi pitch routes sometimes because I couldn't find a good place for an anchor and just kept going, other times because I was trying to go faster by linking pitches. Another option is to get a 60m (or 50m) half or twin rope (7-9mm) and double it over so that you are just using 30 meters. That option is light, and lets you do longer raps than if you just brought a 30m single rope. 30m is enough for when you are just using the rope to cross glacier, simul climb, or if you are expecting only short pitches.

[Jud]

linking pitches means climbing two or more pitches as one "long" pitch.

 

The idea being to be able to go faster, since you don't have to stop at the "regular" (i.e., bolted, or not) anchor? Is that why you'd want to link pitches?

 

Pretty much, two pitches for the price of one.

 

It seems like I find myself using all of a 60 meter rope pretty often on longer alpine and multi pitch routes sometimes because I couldn't find a good place for an anchor and just kept going, other times because I was trying to go faster by linking pitches. Another option is to get a 60m (or 50m) half or twin rope (7-9mm) and double it over so that you are just using 30 meters. That option is light, and lets you do longer raps than if you just brought a 30m single rope. 30m is enough for when you are just using the rope to cross glacier, simul climb, or if you are expecting only short pitches.

 

Thanks for the additional info...helps me piece it together in my head. All in all, at my level and for the type of routes I'm thinking about (single pitch cragging, to moderate multipitch by summer's end, some 1-2 day snow/rock alpine stuff this summer/fall, and ice later this winter), I suppose a dry 60m rope is just fine. Sometimes I've got to remember not to think about gear to much...after all, people were climbing BIG walls and big alpine routes decades ago with very rudimentary gear...!

 

Note to self: an extra 10m of rope (50m vs. 60m) isn't going to make much of a difference weight-wise! About 1.4lbs (650 grams) or less, and is only a bit more rope to manage.

[marcus]

A 50m rope certainly saves weight and could expedite things - if you're simul-ing a great deal.

 

In addition to linking pitches, longer ropes could also mean fewer pitches/belays/changeovers, longer(single rope) raps - all of which can save time.

 

However, longer ropes might also mean more communication challenges, rope managment issues, and a potentially larger(heavier) rack.

 

60m ropes are pretty standard on many modern routes...perhaps a good place to start until you know enough about your own methods/style to tweak them a bit?

[genepires]

Or you could just use your 60m and when you need to rappel, chop off bits from your rope for the anchor or reinforcing/replacing old anchors. Eventually you will have a 50m and do the climbing community a favor. (I like rapping off rope anchors vs little 6mm anchors)

[Jud]

60m ropes are pretty standard on many modern routes...perhaps a good place to start until you know enough about your own methods/style to tweak them a bit?

 

Yes, totally agree. I've just started understanding systems/gear/decisionmaking in various alpine/climbing situations, so a lot of questions are percolating in my head...why this/why not that/what if this, etc. So, I realize that the best 'answer' to the questions that keep popping up in my head is to simply go with a simple/accepted method/approach/piece of gear, get much more experience, and them modify/tweak things later, as you suggest.

 

I find this forum is a really fantastic way to learn --by asking, and also just reading various threads. Great resource. Thanks to all for the input (on my threads in this Newbie area...have learned tons already).

 

It looks like a good weekend of rock and snow coming up.

[counterfeitfake]

Note to self: an extra 10m of rope (50m vs. 60m) isn't going to make much of a difference weight-wise! About 1.4lbs (650 grams) or less, and is only a bit more rope to manage.

 

1.4 lbs should definitely be enough weight to make you think.