Jump to content
  • Announcements

    • olyclimber

      WELCOME TO THE CASCADECLIMBERS.COM FORUMS   02/03/18

      We have upgraded to new forum software as of late last year, and it makes everything here so much better!  It is now much easier to do pretty much anything, including write Trip Reports, sell gear, schedule climbing related events, and more. There is a new reputation system that allows for positive contributors to be recognized,  it is possible to tag content with identifiers, drag and drop in images, and it is much easier to embed multimedia content from Youtube, Vimeo, and more.  In all, the site is much more user friendly, bug free, and feature rich!   Whether you're a new user or a grizzled cascadeclimbers.com veteran, we think you'll love the new forums. Enjoy!
Sign in to follow this  
nkane

[TR] Smith Rock - Moscow, very slowly. Plus, critique my anchors! 4/5/2008

Recommended Posts

'Shock loading' (I hate that term) is not an issue if there is a dynamic element in the system which is why I usually attach myself to the anchor with the rope. The biggest reason to limit extension IMO is so that if one piece fails the belayer won't fall off the ledge or get pulled off balance.

 

Sounds like you're describing a scenario where you're belaying directly off your harness, and you as the belayer create some of the dynamic properties that you're describing. If belaying a 2nd directly off the anchor then shock loading could have a bigger implication on the anchor's integrity....while not necessarily jerking the belayer off of the ledge....

 

Note: Something I see ALL THE TIME is people clipping into an anchor with a daisy after leading a pitch, bringing up the 2nd, and then belaying them out for the next pitch while still attached solely with the daisy (which is not meant to hold factor-2 lead falls)....an easy mistake to make!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I guess shock loading IS the proper term but the additional forces are typically small for anchors as shown in Long's quoted pull tests (if the rope is involved in any way).

 

When belaying off the anchor the rope will reduce the force exerted on the remaining pieces should one piece pull. It's a top rope situation so the forces are small to begin with and dropping the person a few extra feet is no worse than a little penalty slack as far as loading the anchor. I maintain that the more important concern of extension is the displacement issue and not that of increased loading.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ken, he is using just a one cord equalette - not two cords. The anchors are basically in line with what Long is advising relative to the use of an equalette, though they could all use a bit more care in the setup and tuning.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Someone said use less cordelettes, but I'm thinking those setups could be simplified by actually adding another sling. Maybe equalize the two close-together pieces with the cordelette, and then use a shoulder-length sling (or the climbing rope) for the third piece. That would give you basically the same setup, but would be much less futzing around time in the setup I'd guess.

 

Getting all those things connected in a reasonable manner with just one cordelette is certainly a tour-de-force in knot theory, but may have taken quite a while. There's not rule saying you are only allowed one sling (unless that's all you have :grin:). Also, more slings often means better redundancy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

why so much gear for each anchor??? keep it simple! i bet each one of those stances could be house a bomber anchor consisting of 2 pieces and a double sling.

 

if you ask me...complex, time consuming anchors like the ones pictured could be a ill side effect of the john long books. that is, newer climber think that complex anchors are a must and try to mimic those in the book. good to know these things for some high-load applications (hauling, sleeping, rescuing etc)...but for these 'sport' trad routes - keep things fast and simple.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Whats up with all this gear anchor stuff... Me, I just stick to the bolted stuff and the Pakistani death anchor. Works for me.

 

Learning to quickly set 3 bomber pieces then equalizing them to a single power point with the rope or a cordalette is key. Keep working on it and stay safe.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looks to me like you were using what Long refers to as the web-o-lette, which is essentially a cordalette clove hitched to each piece with either a static or dynamically equalized power point.

 

Anchor #1 used this and you had a sliding x at the bottom with a two limiter knots - which makes it an equalette - you just had more than two pieces, which you normally find an equalette tied to. It was dynamically equalized, which means that it would evenly distribute weight to the knots (not the individual pieces) above it. A big swing would have loaded some more than others, but that probably worked well for a downward pull. Nice try with the green sling and the piece to check upward pull. However, you might want to connect that to the power point and not the middle of that sliding x.

 

An equalette is just a sliding x with two limiter knots and an extra locker on the power point for mega-uber-redundancy.

 

Anchor #2 and #3 seemed to look like they used the same type of setup. Who knows. Anchors are such a grey area. They are never perfect.

 

I agree with your description of moscow. If you want a little better experience, I suggest trying out something on the other side instead. The top pitch of white satin is one of the best 5.9 climbs in the park. The first two pitches are junk, but that last one makes it all better.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

hell - if you want experience building an anchor in a really funky, funky place, climb sky chimney - the perch up in the cave is a wierd one - please take pictures and share w/ the group again!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks everyone! There's some decent advice in here, and people were much nicer than I expected. I only cried maybe 3 or 4 times.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Thanks everyone! There's some decent advice in here, and people were much nicer than I expected. I only cried maybe 3 or 4 times.

and not one person reminded you that the simplest and most secure anchor is to be had by merely girth hitching your tauntaun!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I might as well throw in my two cents. Looking at the first two anchors, assuming the pieces that are part of it are sound, they look okay to me. The limiter knots need to be adjusted so that the system can equalize, as was mentioned by others.

 

I can't tell what's going on in the third anchor. Too much is out of the picture.

 

The thing to remember about the Equalette is that if you are going to use only three pieces, the side that has only one should be the most bomber one in the anchor, which has also been said, otherwise use four, two on each side.

 

Comments from people who say it looks too complex are misinformed. The Equalette is quite simple if you understand how it works.

 

Remember that all the principles that apply to any anchor apply to the Equalette. You want to minimize the angles between any two legs of the system. If you have to add slings to do that, then so be it.

 

My personal opinion about the Equalette is that having the pre-tied limiter knots prevents me from quickly using the cordellette to sling boulders. I think I'd rather tie the limiter knots, if and when I decide I want to use the Equalette. If my anchors are really bomber, and I can get a nice place to sit, I'm going to just use the old method of equalizing with one big knot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Sign in to follow this  

×