kevbone Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 KKK…..please define “support the troops”….or for that matter. Will anyone give me your take on this? What does this mean to you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bug Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 Hitler was able to prove that ALL jews were a threat to German society and then proceeded to kill them off. You know the story. Now we have a bunch of fundamentalist Muslims getting out of hand. They will certainly be remebered by history as blood thirsty criminals but why condemn all muslims? Hatered of all Muslims is just wrong. Islam is a peaceful religion. If it IS the one true religion, Islamic terrorists will most certainly burn in Hell. The selective passages that are used by Isamic Extremeists and anti-Muslims are misrepresenting the religion. But as a religion, it gets misused just like Christianity. Look at what Christians did to the Aztecs, Incas, North American Indians. We are not criminals or bad people but still we have allowed our government to treat the Muslim world and other third world peoples badly. We are insulated by our media and our popular unwillingness to look at the effect our lifestyle has on other peoples. If it were not the Muslims, it would be some other group that eventually rose against our oppressive tactics. Ask any Palestinian. ElSalvadorian. Guatamalean. Nicaraguan. The list goes on. It is too easy to hate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaskadskyjKozak Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 Hitler was able to prove that ALL jews were a threat to German society and then proceeded to kill them off. You know the story. Now we have a bunch of fundamentalist Muslims getting out of hand. They will certainly be remebered by history as blood thirsty criminals but why condemn all muslims? Hatered of all Muslims is just wrong. Islam is a peaceful religion. If it IS the one true religion, Islamic terrorists will most certainly burn in Hell. The selective passages that are used by Isamic Extremeists and anti-Muslims are misrepresenting the religion. But as a religion, it gets misused just like Christianity. Look at what Christians did to the Aztecs, Incas, North American Indians. We are not criminals or bad people but still we have allowed our government to treat the Muslim world and other third world peoples badly. We are insulated by our media and our popular unwillingness to look at the effect our lifestyle has on other peoples. If it were not the Muslims, it would be some other group that eventually rose against our oppressive tactics. Ask any Palestinian. ElSalvadorian. Guatamalean. Nicaraguan. The list goes on. It is too easy to hate. Blame America First! Moral relativism! F-Yeah! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recycled Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 Hitler was able to prove that ALL jews were a threat to German society and then proceeded to kill them off. You know the story. Now we have a bunch of fundamentalist Muslims getting out of hand. They will certainly be remebered by history as blood thirsty criminals but why condemn all muslims? Hatered of all Muslims is just wrong. Islam is a peaceful religion. If it IS the one true religion, Islamic terrorists will most certainly burn in Hell. The selective passages that are used by Isamic Extremeists and anti-Muslims are misrepresenting the religion. But as a religion, it gets misused just like Christianity. Look at what Christians did to the Aztecs, Incas, North American Indians. We are not criminals or bad people but still we have allowed our government to treat the Muslim world and other third world peoples badly. We are insulated by our media and our popular unwillingness to look at the effect our lifestyle has on other peoples. If it were not the Muslims, it would be some other group that eventually rose against our oppressive tactics. Ask any Palestinian. ElSalvadorian. Guatamalean. Nicaraguan. The list goes on. It is too easy to hate. An interesting "german" perspective: http://justlearningman.wordpress.com/2008/01/15/a-germans-point-of-view-on-islam/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 Islam is a peaceful religion. I disagree. Someone posted early that if you don’t convert to Islam than you were put to death. Uh….not so peaceful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recycled Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 Islam is a peaceful religion. I disagree. Someone posted early that if you don’t convert to Islam than you were put to death. Uh….not so peaceful. Well, to be fair, I believe the Crusaders did the same at the time. Christianity appears to have moved past that, but not necessarily some adherents of Islam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 Islam is a peaceful religion. I disagree. Someone posted early that if you don’t convert to Islam than you were put to death. Uh….not so peaceful. Well, to be fair, I believe the Crusaders did the same at the time. Christianity appears to have moved past that, but not necessarily some adherents of Islam. Same thing at the time?…..maybe but you don’t see planes flying into buildings in the name of Christianity these days. Islam is not a peaceful religion. There may be some peaceful people who practice it, but the root of Islam is not peaceful. IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaskadskyjKozak Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 Well, to be fair, I believe the Crusaders did the same at the time. I don't think so. It was more about capturing territory than "converting anybody", and of the "collateral damage" were quite a few Christians. But let's stick to the point at hand in the 21st century and not the 11th. If you want to go back 1000 years, there's plenty of killing to be discussed, and it's all irrelevant to today's discussion. Why exactly should people die for publishing cartoons? And why should companies be terrorized by threats of death and destruction into not publishing them? That's the question at hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 KKK you threw around the phrase “support the troops”. Now you can’t back up what you meant. Either because you are ignoring me (lame) or because you don’t really know what the phrase means. Please answer the question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 KK, did you ever hear of the order: "kill them all and god will know his own?" This came from the Albigensian Crusade, ordered by Pope Innocent III. About 1209. From manbottle.com: Pope Innocent III ordered the Albigensian Crusade, to purge southern France of the Cathari heretics. It began in the summer of 1209, with their first target - the town of Beziers. The Catholic faithful in Beziers refused to give up the Catharis among themselves. The crusaders invaded. When Arnaud-Amaury was asked whom to kill he replied "Kill them all. God will know his own." They did. The crusaders slaughtered nearly everyone in town, over 20,000, either burned or clubbed to death. Thus they achieved their goal of killing the estimated 200 heretics who were hiding in the town among the Catholic faithful. The brutal crusade continued on for the next twenty years. Eventually the Catholics devised a new approach for dealing with the remaining Cathari heretics in France. It was called "the Inquisition". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaskadskyjKozak Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 KK, did you ever hear of the order: "kill them all and god will know his own?" This came from the Albigensian Crusade, ordered by Pope Innocent III. About 1209. Wow, and so recent! 1209!!! Meanwhile, here in 2008, they are issuing fatwas for cartoonists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bug Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 Hitler was able to prove that ALL jews were a threat to German society and then proceeded to kill them off. You know the story. Now we have a bunch of fundamentalist Muslims getting out of hand. They will certainly be remebered by history as blood thirsty criminals but why condemn all muslims? Hatered of all Muslims is just wrong. Islam is a peaceful religion. If it IS the one true religion, Islamic terrorists will most certainly burn in Hell. The selective passages that are used by Isamic Extremeists and anti-Muslims are misrepresenting the religion. But as a religion, it gets misused just like Christianity. Look at what Christians did to the Aztecs, Incas, North American Indians. We are not criminals or bad people but still we have allowed our government to treat the Muslim world and other third world peoples badly. We are insulated by our media and our popular unwillingness to look at the effect our lifestyle has on other peoples. If it were not the Muslims, it would be some other group that eventually rose against our oppressive tactics. Ask any Palestinian. ElSalvadorian. Guatamalean. Nicaraguan. The list goes on. It is too easy to hate. Blame America First! Moral relativism! F-Yeah! Inaccurate knee-jerk reaction. America has a part to play in stirring the pot. As the most powerful country in the world, we should be setting the example for others to follow. We have stumbled on too many occasions. That is not blaming us for the problem. It is looking at how we might help avoid giving our enemies fuel to recruit with. Going into Iraq the way we did is such an example. We lied about why and conquered another country. This does not say that muslim extremeists are right. They are not. Why say "Bring it on"? When we went into Afgahnistan there was almost no reaction. We went in to do eliminate the people who flew jets into the World Trade Center. Clear and reasonably justifiable. Instead of following those same people into Pakistan, we left them alone inside that country and attacked another Arab country. Everyone over there beleives it is for money. Why fuel that? Why risk that? We could have squeezed Hussein far more than we did. The no-fly zones were a weak joke. The oil shutdowns were they way to get to him. We refused to enforce that option. There were alternatives and we failed to execute them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 I though you claimed to be a history buff? My point, on page 1 or 2 of this thread, was that "kill the infidels" is not necessarily a part of Islam in practice. I wrote that the early Islamic empire in fact showed more tolerance than the later crusaders - and I believe that at least by some measure that is true. I agree with those who have suggested that Islam seems to have become generally more intolerant, and whether you agree with my historical references or not, there are certainly plenty who call for killing the infidels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bug Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 An interesting "german" perspective: http://justlearningman.wordpress.com/2008/01/15/a-germans-point-of-view-on-islam/ Good article. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaskadskyjKozak Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 I though you claimed to be a history buff? My point, on page 1 or 2 of this thread, was that "kill the infidels" is not necessarily a part of Islam in practice. I wrote that the early Islamic empire in fact showed more tolerance than the later crusaders - and I believe that at least by some measure that is true. Nonsense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bug Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 Islam is a peaceful religion. I disagree. Someone posted early that if you don’t convert to Islam than you were put to death. Uh….not so peaceful. So atheists are not peaceful either right? Look at China. If you openly practice religion you are persecuted at best. Does that make ALL atheists intollerent of religious practitioners? And there is a Surah that reads something like, A Muslim will respect any pious man regardless of his faith. Read the German article above. Think about how the sane people in the world could work toward peace. Can we really kill all Muslims? Is that what you want? I doubt it. What are the options? I think it starts with looking at ourselves, NOT because we are inherently wrong but because we have the ability to change ourselves without violence. And it will not take that much to remove the fuels that stoke rabid fundamentalism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 Nope. Just history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaskadskyjKozak Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 Can we really kill all Muslims? Is that what you want? I doubt it. What are the options? I think it starts with looking at ourselves, NOT because we are inherently wrong but because we have the ability to change ourselves without violence. You present a false and bogus choice. Kill all muslims? Please. The point here is muslims are immigrating to other countries and demanding that those countries change, and muslims are threatening acts of terror against those that they deem are acting in ways that are offensive (oh the horror) to their beliefs. Sorry, but I'm not CHANGING my country or myself one fucking iota with respect to free speech or anything that someone from islamofuckistan feels is offensive. Period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaskadskyjKozak Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 Nope. Just history. Nope, it's nonsense. Your "argument" is based on cherry picking examples of killing by Christians combined with examples of muslims supposedly being tolerant to others (as per something you read by some author somewhere- real convincing) rather than a total view of history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Kidd Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 "Islamofuckistan" Who could think anything like this could be offensive? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaskadskyjKozak Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 "Islamofuckistan" Who could think anything like this could be offensive? Being offensive is part and parcel of free speech. Bombing those who offend you, or slitting their throats is not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Kidd Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 "Islamofuckistan" Who could think anything like this could be offensive? Being offensive is part and parcel of free speech. Bombing those who offend you, or slitting their throats is not. So by being offensive you are becoming a champion of free speech? Very admirable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Off_White Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 Bug: That was an interesting article Recycled posted, though the actual source appears to be Canadian: link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaskadskyjKozak Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 So by being offensive you are becoming a champion of free speech? Very admirable. I'll be as offensive as I want - especially to those threatening chaos and murder because they don't like freedom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Kidd Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 Very emotive - you fit in "chaos", "murder", AND "freedom" in one sentence. Is this the O'Reilly Factor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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