sobo Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 avalanche * you are ignoring this user * Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 Hi Hugh, Sorry about that, didn't mean to come off sounding like I was lecturing. And I was writing directly to you because it sounded like we had some disagreements about what makes a good avie class. I fail to see how that is possible given the dramatically different locations the courses are presented in and even different times at the same location. If there are no layers in the snowpack it's hard to get much good field feedback on evaluating layers in the snowpack. You insist that there can't be good field work in courses where there aren't layers, despite the Cascades going through the biggest avalanche season on record. And the local avie class providers have actually added courses this year to meet the demand. The fact that you insist the Cascade snow pack is uniform throughout its depth suggests that you don't have a very good avalanche education yourself, but I'll assume that you know more than I do until you say or prove otherwise. If this material is so independant of time and space - why do you even need to take a class, unless that is your preferred learning method? Couldn't you just create an exam process for feedback? I don't recall claiming that the material is independent of time and space, but that there are commonalities irregardless of geography that allow for a uniform curriculum. Also, the AIARE curriculum has flexibility - even some gaps - that require instructors to bring in the local environment to the course. Since in my opinion the major benefit of a class is feedback in the field from someone with more knowledge than yourself this variability makes comparisons between courses problematic... No shit? I thought avalanches flowed uphill in the Southern Hemisphere. If you are interested in waving your dick around oh great Mountain Guide! this is a fine thread - because you and sobo's bandstand lecturing is fucking funny. If you want to help others - don't aim your lectures at me, who you've never met, and quite obviously don't know much about. Why the hate, Hugh? I never assumed that you were uninformed, stupid, or a jackass. I simply disgree with you and stated why, and for those interested in learning more, provided some links. You're absolutely correct, I have never met you and I don't know anything about you, but you don't know my background either. Do I need to show you my resume to justify my opinions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Conway Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 Why the hate, Hugh? I never assumed that you were uninformed, stupid, or a jackass. no, you just suggest it The fact that you insist the Cascade snow pack is uniform throughout its depth suggests that you don't have a very good avalanche education yourself. I'm not sure where you got the idea I think the Cascade snow pack is uniform, but it's one of farcical exagerated misinterpretations that make this thread priceless. Perhaps when I earlier suggested a backhoe was useful for finding layers in the Cascades? The Cascades get a large number of large storms with generally mild temps and cloudy skys ergo they are generally less intereating than places with less snow cover, and greater temperature and cloud cover variability. Yes, I'm broadly generalizing. Snowpit feedback and field snow science is one of the few things I see as unique to the field learning environment if you are interested in learning about avalanche avoidance. Weather knowledge and routefinding can be done in other ways much more effectively, imho. Rescue practice is avalanche hazard mitigation. I'm not suggesting AIARE is bad, I just don't see it as compellingly better than the other options out there, especially given the higher cost and time requirements that can make attendance difficult. Perhaps thats because I see the courses mentioned here as only a small component next to continued learning (reading, thinking) and time in the field observing and therefore the differences between courses are small next to actually attending one. That said perhaps I'm looking for different things in Avalanche Education with a different goal and perhaps different background than average. Oh well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 I couldn't agree with you more. A course is only the start - which is what the OP was looking for. And everything taught in a course has to be practiced for it to remain relevant. Sobo suggested - well, actually stated - that you were an ass. I never did. And if you have met me, you'd know that I speak my mind. If I thought you were an idiot, I would have called you one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sobo Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 ...Sobo suggested - well, actually stated - that you were an ass. Nope, never stated that. But I will now. "Hugh, you're an ass." There. ...If I thought you were an idiot, I would have called you one. I'll just stick with "ass" and leave it at that. Fits bestest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave C Posted February 14, 2008 Author Share Posted February 14, 2008 Well I see that this thread has gone into bashing more than informative. Thanks to everyone for the useful info. I reside in WI and would be wanting to take a course in WA. From the research I have done, I want to have a course that spends the most time in the field. Being that I would like an attempt on Mt. Baker/Shuksan, I did find American Alpine Institute to be a possibility. Anyone have some insight on them? Chris any other suggestions being an instructor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hefeweizen Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 You might also look into the classes taught by Paul Baugher (Crystal Mountain Patrol Director) through his company NW Avalanche Institute linky They are at Crystal and he has as much longevity in this area as anyone. Also, if time and money are really no concern, consider taking a course from Silverton Avalanche School in Silverton, CO (maybe do your Level 1 there) and then take your Level 2 somewhere in the cascades for a completely different perspective and snow science experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 Hi Dave, I think you're looking in the right direction. If you're thinking of spending more time skiing/climbing in the Cascades, then come on out! The Sierra is another option - both are maritime snowpacks, so the snow characteristics will be similar (except that the Cascades is having a crazy year, and the Sierra is having an average one). Sorry if I hi-jacked your thread - hopefully I said a few things that helped! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paramagic Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 If travel really is not an issue, I recommend Doug & Jill's classes in Alaska: http://www.alaskaavalanche.com/ These are the authors of Snow Sense, you'll spend an intro evening in the classroom and the rest of the weekend in the field- and you will learn... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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