billcoe Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 Link "Benazir Bhutto, a former Pakistan prime minister and opposition leader, has been killed in a suicide bombing on her political rally, government and party officials confirmed today..... " This could have some huge major long term negative effects for us that we might not see for a few years yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZONK Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 You could see this coming from a mile away. Sad and it will have long and short term effects on the region ! and not positive ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crackers Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 I'd disagree. It might well have substantially good medium term effects. The real work right now would be move the anti suicide bombing discussion into the provinces generating the bombers. It's not musharraf, it's the bombers who take away our freedom, and enslave us. whoops. i'm going back to making some backpacks now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billcoe Posted December 27, 2007 Author Share Posted December 27, 2007 I'd disagree. It might well have substantially good medium term effects. The real work right now would be move the anti suicide bombing discussion into the provinces generating the bombers. It's not musharraf, it's the bombers who take away our freedom, and enslave us. I hope you're right Graham, but I think that this will further disenfranchise the middle of the road pro-democracy crowd, and I suspect, this will radicalize many of them. BTW, the Bhutto supporters, who wanted democracy and freedom from a petty, power hungry, US supported dictator, believe that the dictator Musharraf was behind this. Well see how it plays out in the coming weeks, months and years. I do not think it will be a good thing at all, for anybody. I suspect the tribalists and various jihadists will benefit long term by swelling their ranks from the disenfranchised, and from sympathy from others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sobo Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 I have to agree with ZONK: I learned about it from NPR on the commute. I was at once surprised and not surprised that this happened. I mean, it was tried once already in October. Whatever you think/feel/believe about her and/or Musharraf's politics and/or corruption practices, assassination is no way for a civilized nation to effect change. The NPR linky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bug Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 I'd disagree. It might well have substantially good medium term effects. The real work right now would be move the anti suicide bombing discussion into the provinces generating the bombers. It's not musharraf, it's the bombers who take away our freedom, and enslave us. I hope you're right Graham, but I think that this will further disenfranchise the middle of the road pro-democracy crowd, and I suspect, this will radicalize many of them. BTW, the Butto supporters, who wanted democracy and freedom from a petty, power hungry, US supported dictator, believe that Musharraf, that dictator, was behind this. Well see how it plays out in the coming weeks and months. I agree with Bill. No disrespect Graham. The influence of assasination in an already violent atmosphere will most likely contribute to the downward spiral. It does not help that the military dictator (Stepped out of the military position OK but how far?) is violent by nature. I think we are seeing the final chapter of hope for democracy there. Very sad. Very sadly not surprising. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivan Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 whatever her politics and true nature, you have to envy the courage of a woman who could keep going knowing full well how likely that course of action would lead to this bloody conclusion for herself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvashtarkatena Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 I'd disagree. It might well have substantially good medium term effects. The real work right now would be move the anti suicide bombing discussion into the provinces generating the bombers. It's not musharraf, it's the bombers who take away our freedom, and enslave us. whoops. i'm going back to making some backpacks now. ??? PS We've enslaved ourselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billygoat Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 I'm glad stuff like that does not happen in this country. Whoops, I forgot about Bobby Kennedy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archenemy Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 This is very sad indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bug Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 I'm glad stuff like that does not happen in this country. Whoops, I forgot about Bobby Kennedy. MLK too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archenemy Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 The very word assassin comes from Arabic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bug Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 The very word assassin comes from Arabic. I hope I am missing your point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivan Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 The very word assassin comes from Arabic. and that's why i've never liked hash! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olyclimber Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 In other bleak news http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22400463/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvashtarkatena Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 The very word assassin comes from Arabic. The popular wisdom is that the word is derived from the Arabic 'haschishin', or 'hashish user'. This is probably false. The most supported etymology for the word is from the Persian 'Hassassin', which means 'follower of Hassan' (an infamous Persian leader of a violent band in the 1200's). Hassan was a prohibitionist who did not allow his followers to use hashish. It's pretty unlikely, as many of us already know, that hashish would produce the desired affects for a band of assassins anyway. Google 'etymology assassin' and check it out. There are articles supporting both etymologies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crackers Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 I hope you're right Graham, but I think that this will further disenfranchise the middle of the road pro-democracy crowd, and I suspect, this will radicalize many of them. BTW, the Butto supporters, who wanted democracy and freedom from a petty, power hungry, US supported dictator, believe that Musharraf, that dictator, was behind this. Well see how it plays out in the coming weeks and months. The thing that I think you are missing is that Bhutto never was a democrat, or elected in anything more than the most perfunctory manner. The enmity between the Bhutto and Sharif clans is substantial, they've jailed each other and repeatedly stated that they would not form a government together. Musharraf's government was declared to be legal by the Pakistani Supreme Court back in 1999 based on the precedent of a case won by Bhutto's father. If Bhutto had been elected, what would you see? More "democratic" cronyism, more graft, corruption and factional politics such as experienced in Europe in the premodern period or the other half of Pakistan (Bangladesh...) today. Her husband would no doubt have been pardoned for the massive graft, corruption and stealing that marked his involvement in her previous prime ministry. I think confusing Bhutto and democracy is foolish. I also think that Musharraf or the ISI had anything to do with it is extremely unlikely to the point of laughable. Thinking that Musharraf is "violent by nature" fundamentally misunderstands the man, the current political situation and the reality of politics in Pakistan. The one voice that my analysis of Pakistani politics to be democractic is sitting out this election -- Imran Khan. He, too, is a clan leader, but his political party is far from based on his clan status or even his cricket power. Finally, hashashim is a persian word. Sorry arch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crackers Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 I'm glad stuff like that does not happen in this country. Whoops, I forgot about Bobby Kennedy. MLK too. Stuff like this doesn't happen in this country. Conflating Bobby Kennedy, MLK and Benazir Bhutto makes me sad and wonder about the educmakatinal sistem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvashtarkatena Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 (edited) I'm glad stuff like that does not happen in this country. Whoops, I forgot about Bobby Kennedy. MLK too. Stuff like this doesn't happen in this country. Conflating Bobby Kennedy, MLK and Benazir Bhutto makes me sad and wonder about the educmakatinal sistem. Oklahoma City? 911? JFK? Nah, never happens. Uh, 'stuff like' exactly WHAT never happens here? Edited December 27, 2007 by tvashtarkatena Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivan Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 and yet rfk was a politician running for the highest office in the land when he was assassinated? of course the larger situations are different between our 2 nations, and i don't immediately see any useful comparisions, but the usa has experienced it's fair share of corrupt, violence-tinged elections and to say "stuff like this doesn't happen" here makes me just as curious about your edumacation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joblo7 Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 (edited) The very word assassin comes from Arabic. that´s just ´cause they are an old ure... et meurtrier, d´,ou ca viens? Edited December 27, 2007 by joblo7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crackers Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 Well Ivan and TT, I think that comparing the assassination of a tribal chief by parties unknown, but surely politically motivated as a first motive, does not bear worthwhile comparison to RFK's assassination, which furthermore did not result in another 10+ folks getting the whack. Oklahoma, 9/11, JFK, MLK, nope, nope, nope, nope. In my little book of misery, those are very different situations. Now, if you said Sadat, Guiliano De Medici, or several other that come to mind, I might agree with you. But I'm going back to work, so have fun with your spray... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joblo7 Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 SUICIDE BOMBING = NO NEED TO INVESTIGATE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joblo7 Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 the revelancy between this assasination and similar acts here is that they are the work of the same forces/backers/families/private armies/etal. butto was bad for us /war/business.we need a tyrant there, to buffer india. ...the next superpower. (50yrs) she had to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joblo7 Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 The very word assassin comes from Arabic. that´s just ´cause they are an old ure... et meurtrier, d´,ou ca viens? old ure....like this effin old computer from the 90´s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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