Denali Expedition 2008 - Looking for 10-12 member

[vertical_hiker]

Mission Denali Expedition 2008

 

Yes, we are looking for a team of climbers to climb Denali (Mt. McKinley, Alaska) with us, (climbingforchrist.org) as a mission to help others on the mountain. (10-12 members only, this is not a guided expedition, so it's inexpensive because there is no profit, but we expect team players). We will attempt the Summit, via West Buttress, but we are committed to serving people on the mountain as God leads us. If you are interested, please visit this website: Mission Denali 2008 and fill out an application if you fulfill some the prerequisites.

 

Thank you. If you have any questions, please email me.

 

Date:May 12 (arrive in Anchorage) to June 6, 2008.

Team: 10-12 members.

Estimated Cost: $1825 (inexpensive because it's not a guided profit trip)

 

[mconley]

I would propose the you keep the preaching to yourselves. From your site. "Purpose: To share the love and truth of Christ with other climbers on the mountain"

 

The mountain itself is "God" I do not need or want some missioary up there violating my church. Go experience the mountain for yourselves...Leave the preaching behind. The truth is in Nature...not the bible.

 

Peace

[ryland_moore]

I still think $1825 is really expensive! I climbed Denali three years ago, and unless the peak fee and flight in has quadrupled since then, then I come up with less than $1,000 including everything you have on there. I outfitted my entire climb, also unguided including airfare and all of my climbing gear that I needed (like overboots and feathered friends jacket) for less than that. This includes food and fuel for 28 days with a team of 5. Are you purchasing all brand new group gear like ropes, stoves, megamid, etc. that s causing the cost to go up?

[vertical_hiker]

hey, regarding the Denali comments, last year we hit the summit of Denali, but helped people on the mountain, and I don't believe we ever preached to anyone, but by our actions of love and honesty, we helped many people, never did any harm to anyone, gave crampons away to some RMI team member who needed them, food, fuel, prayed for sick people, etc, we aim at keeping the mountain clean (leave no trace), hang out with new friends from different countries, take craps in the cans, piss in the pee holes, treat everyone as they wanted to be treated, anything wrong with that? Your idea of "preaching", like you were doing to me, regarding your "mountain god" (I'm right and your wrong mentally) is judgmental and flawed. That's not us. You have judged me, but I'm cool with that. It doesn't offend. So we believe the Bible,... so what, lot of people do. You believe the mountain is your god. So what, go for it. I will not judge you for it, nor bother trying to convince you otherwise. The climbing community has always been respectful of anyone's religious beliefs, so I might nicely add that you respect other people's beliefs. Be cool to others and they'll be cool to you. By the way, you shouldn't have a problem with us, since your mountain god didn't have a problem with us on Denali this '07 season, as 8/10 of us made the summit. Take care.

[vertical_hiker]

R. moore, to answer your question simply, most guiding companies, like RMI, charge $5000 to climb Denali, and they don't cover nearly what we cover, like the lodging in anchorage, the extra nights, travel/fuel from Anchorage to talkeetna and back, we cover all food, not just b/d, (we eat really well, not plain mountain house), group purchases, we have satellite phone usage, the bush plane is at least $500 and climbing permit is at or over $250, and more miscellaneous, so yeah, it gets up there easy. So, $5000 compared to $1850 and we cover more, is actually quite good. Hope that answers your question.

[JosephH]

You're the one advertising and explicitly stating 'preaching' is what you're all about.

 

"We are the international Christian mountain climbing organization committed to getting people to high places."

 

Basically your committed to continuing a centuries old legacy of cultural genocide by Christian missionaries. No swords, no smallpox, but still the tip of a spear. And the difference between Islamic and Christian fundamentalists? There isn't any - they're equally dangerous to our society. Sad as it ever was.

[pinegar]

Whatever Joseph.

 

I think you're a neat climber.

 

So yours was a particularly disappointing post.

 

And I know I'm an atheist. But this guy is doing exactly what this board is all about, in my extremely humble opinion.

 

I say to "Denali Expedition 2008", even though I won't be checking out the web site or trying to figure out how they preach or climb or whatever.

[vertical_hiker]

joseph, there's a saying by a great philosopher that says, "Preach at all times, and if possible, use words." That's really what it's all about. Simple. Preach by your love. It's funny you're calling me a fundamentalist, and you don't even know me. Hmm, you're no different.

[JosephH]

When you've seen and experienced firsthand the affects of exactly these fundamentalist behaviors both at home and abroad as I have then you might feel differently. This is hardly a benign business around the world, but rather a dead serious affair and unfortunate one in just about every way.

[Dechristo]

Careful, JH. You become what you hate.

[JosephH]

Not in all, and the idea that people shouldn't speak out against fundamentalist religious activities is based on the misguided idea that they are benign and harmless. Nothing could be further from the truth. This kind of activity in a different guise, on both sides, has directly contributed to our current situation in the Middle East. It is also responsible for an ongoing cultural genocide among aboriginal peoples around the world that has been a steady staple of these "missions" for centuries.

 

Drape it in climbing and bring it here, then yeah, you get a response.

[Dechristo]

Your vehemence appears more "fundamentalist" than the calm philosophy which you attack.

[JosephH]

Ah, so now it's a "calm philosophy" - hard to find a more benign wrapper than that.

 

This does seem relatively benign and at worst only irritating or mildly offensive:

 

"At Camp 4 we had a good, long group discussion concerning evangelism and sharing faith and testimony with climbers, and reviewed Scripture on the subject"

 

"Worship at Camp 4 (14,000 feet) was wonderful, not at all diminished by the steady snowfall that confined the nine of us to our cook tent. We raised our voices in praise to our Lord. With Charleton leading us on the backpack guitar, we were likely heard throughout camp."

 

or this

 

"That child bicycling past your house or playing basketball down the street could be a climber, waiting to hear the Word of the Lord."

 

But you start reading about their 'missions' to various Muslim countries and it all takes on a much less benign tone and set of consequences. And it's amazing how, in a world increasingly corrupted by fundamentalism - including our own country, that any time someone calls these folks on their shit they are immediately 'extreme', 'vehement', or otherwise painted as radical. Climbers for Christ is about exactly the kind of 'crusade' the world needs far less of and I make no apologies at all for my views on their activities.

[dan_forester]

Hope you have a fun and safe Denali trip. Here's some good advice to take with you, from the Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 6:5-6)...

 

And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. But when you pray, go into your room [or tent], close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

 

And on a personal note, leave the backpack guitar, harmonica, and bongos at home. Enjoy the silence.

[vertical_hiker]

Joseph, I'm trying to figure out your point?...We share our faith, whether it's through love or through words, that's what Christians are supposed to do,...but what does that have to do with fundamentalism your portraying. Your attitude is no different from those fundamentalists you're talking about, judging and all, hate. I'm sorry if you've been hurt in the past by other whack jobs.

 

Dan, On another note, that sermon the mount verse you quoted is a good verse, simply for any person, like the pharisee, that pray to appear more spiritual than they really are. Praying, even if seen by anybody is not wrong; it's the attitude and motivation. There's nothing wrong with playing guitar in the mountains, anymore than reading a book. Even reading takes away the purity of quietness. It's not playing the guitar, it's how... you play it. My best man, roommate in college, and former band member, plays guitar for switchfoot. I love guitar. Asking me to leave my guitar at home is like asking you to leave your sleeping bag at home (except that a guitar doesn't keep me warm).

[builder206]

After I posted my spray yesterday, I spent some time looking around their website. They seem (1) mainline Protestant, not fundamentalist (2) very moderate and easygoing (3) strongly oriented to climbing and (4) genuinely interested in being of service.

 

Everything JosephH has posted on this topic in this thread is a straw man argument. He creates a fiction, then attacks it. His statements are so irrelevant, they’re not even wrong.

 

Worship and prayer is not fundamentalist. If anyone thinks it is, then you have placed yourself outside the bounds of rational discussion. Fundamentalists worship and pray but not all who worship and pray are fundamentalist.

 

I was raised in Texas. Believe me, I know fundamentalist. There is nothing on their website that even hints at that strain of extremism. If it is true that they practice what they preach and do not get in anyone’s face with the Bible or “testimony,” then not only are these guys harmless, they probably really are doing positive good. How about you?

 

I am embarrassed that I posted my spray yesterday before looking at their site. I console myself that I was only dismissive and not vitriolic.

 

I concur with Dan Forester: no musical instruments. The last thing I want after all day humping a load uphill is someone else's music and singing voice. Keep camp quiet.

Edited December 17, 2007 by builder206

[AlpineK]

I'm just happy to see that this subject is now in the proper forum which is Spray not Climbing Partners.

 

Please continue the entertainment.

[Jason_Martin]

 

And on a personal note, leave the backpack guitar, harmonica, and bongos at home. Enjoy the silence.

 

Dan's point is that it's disrespectful to others who are trying to enjoy the quiet of the wilderness to play loud music or instruments without their permission.

 

It's becoming more and more common every day to go climbing and have some yahoo at the crag with some kind of stereo blaring music. It doesn't matter what kind of music it is. It has an effect on other people's wilderness experience and is the antithesis of the Leave No Trace principal "Be considerate of other visitors."

 

Read the specific notes on the lnt website at:

 

Principals of Leave No Trace

 

There is a certain well known guide on Denali who likes to play the fiddle. Some of you know who I'm talking about. And it drives people camped near him up the wall... I find it very inconsiderate of him to do this. But few people are willing to say anything to him because he's a very well known individual.

 

And for those of you who can't seem to climb without music blaring, try an ipod with earpieces...and if that doesn't work, there's always the climbing gym...

 

Jason

Edited December 17, 2007 by Jason_Martin

[AlpineK]

I'd agree with Jason.

 

I remember a few times down near Moab when we were camping and some jerks at the next campsite decided to play the bongos all night long. They weren't trying to push any, "Christian," agenda that I could make out, but they were driving us crazy just by blaring their noise all night and interrupting the silence of nature.

[letsroll]

Enjoy the silence. Image of John Belushi in Animal house, throwing the hippies guitar against the wall then against the handrail.

 

You play knowing your letting everybody hear you then some one should do that to you, inluding if you a guide.

[ryland_moore]

I agree with Builder. JH, you lumping everyone who believes in a christian god as purely extreme fundamentalism is the same as me calling you a climber and lumping everyone in there with you including sport climbers, because, after all, there really is not difference between a sport climber, trad climber, boulderer, mountaineer, ice climber, alpine climber, etc... That is your logic. Ever heard of Imago Dei in portland? Probably one of the most liberal and environmentally conscious groups religious or not in Portland that is activey doing things to save the environment, reduce waste, and help the poor. They are building a LEED cewrtified church, they discuss caring for creation and conduct Mission trips around the world focusing on raising money to bring fresh water to areas around the world without it. If you think theree is a hidden agenda to convert these people around world to Christians by placing water as "candy" in front of them, then you must be one of those conspiracy theory whackos who is always looking over their shoulder thinking that a black hawk helicopter will come and swoop down and take everything you have. You are cynincal.

 

Act your age. I would expect someone who has been around like you to at least have a little wiser perspective on things. No, I am not fundamentalist and do not associate myself with one denomination but do believe in God.

 

This group sounds harmless. I know of one instance while on Denali where I prayed in silence due to a serious situation and would have not felt so alone if others wer there in support. I would suggest they leave the guitar at home, but then again, this is the West Butt. It is a circus all the way up most of the time and I heard stereos being played up there, so nsthis may be an exception.

 

JH, if all you can do is criticize, just go back to working on cleaning that pile of choss out in the Gorge that no one cares about or uses besides you.......at least then no one has to listen to you. How much have you done for the poor, the less-fortunate, those without water, those without a pot to cook a meal, those without heat or beds? Oh that's right, you spend all of your money on new hardware for a crag that no one uses, in a place that no one cares about. That must be really fulfilling.......

[tvashtarkatena]

Temperature -30F. For three straight days and nights 30 mph winds have beat the tent like a frozen inferno; the excrutiating pressure behind my eyes builds with each snap. My tentmate lies comatose; he rises only to squirt what little diarrhea he can muster from his wasted form. And all the while, in the distance, the strum of a 12 string guitar coaxes forth yet another verse of "Kumbaya, My Lord, Kumbaya...."

Edited December 17, 2007 by tvashtarkatena

[builder206]

Now, that's just hurtful.

[JosephH]

There is no 'fiction' required or involved and I don't have to create strawmen. Sure, on the surface these sorts of folks look relatively benign, but you go to their website and it doesn't take long to find the fundamentalist core of them hard at work under the quise of "religious freedom" in Islamic nations. Exactly this kind of missionary activity has accompanied and been at the 'point of the spear' of the actual and cultural genocide of aboriginal peoples throughout the world that continues in full swing today despite the denial of comfortable white suburbanites. Today many of these folks view themselves as 'warriors' in a cultural war with Islam.

 

You need only look to indian reservations here in North America and see several centuries of genocide still hard at work in a 'mop up' operation that spans formal cultural, economic, and governmental programs. My own wife's tribe endured the most blatant and formal (Govt. and Christian co-managed) cultural genocide programs right through to the mid '70s as did aboriginal peoples across the US, Canada, and Australia. And very real genocide accompanies it as we speak in many parts of Latin America and Asia. Formalized and deliberate economic fraud and theft on the part of our Government associated with past and current indian treaty rights to the tune of $100 billion dollars is actively ongoing and well-documented by the judge in the Cobell v. Kempthorne case.

 

In the end, groups like this look benign, but that is only a function of naivete and a lack of familiarity with their more radical members and the overall missionary movement they belong to.

 

 

 

 

 

[ericb]

....My tentmate lies comatose; he rises only to squirt what little diarrhea he can muster from his wasted form. And all the while, in the distance, the strum of a 12 string guitar coaxes forth yet another verse of "Kumbaya, My Lord, Kumbaya...."

 

Wouldn't it be ironic if the song was "I've got a river of life flowin out of me....."