tomtom Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 Any individual who chooses to work in a union shop and not join the union is legally permitted to do so. This fact is based on a Supreme Court ruling in the case of Beck v. Communication Workers of America. I'm sure you can find more information on this on the interwebs. Please do not continue to tell lies about unions forcing individuals to join. There are several other mistruths and inaccuracies in your posts, but this one is perhaps the most glaring. I don't know if this is standard, but UW recently adopted a TA's union under the United Auto Workers of all things. I was opposed to it, but that's neither here nor there. Once it was passed everyone had the option to join the union and pay 2% of their salary for union dues, or not join the union and pay 1% anyway. That pretty well irked me. So the union has the right to tax workers? Taxation without representation? Hmmm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archenemy Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 no no no. stewardship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayB Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 JayB pontificating and touting his expertise about a type of organization that he's had no personal experience with whatsoever? I just don't believe it. I haven't been a member of the Janjaweed militias, either... Is there a formal term for this incredibly weak argument? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaskadskyjKozak Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 JayB pontificating and touting his expertise about a type of organization that he's had no personal experience with whatsoever? I just don't believe it. I haven't been a member of the Janjaweed militias, either... Is there a formal term for this incredibly weak argument? it's modus operandi for trashtalkingtigermountainkong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvashtarkatena Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 Do groupies have a union? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marylou Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 So the union has the right to tax workers? Taxation without representation? Hmmm. Uh, they ARE represented, whether they join the union or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marylou Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 I don't know if this is standard, but UW recently adopted a TA's union under the United Auto Workers of all things. I was opposed to it, but that's neither here nor there. Once it was passed everyone had the option to join the union and pay 2% of their salary for union dues, or not join the union and pay 1% anyway. That pretty well irked me. How much did your wages go up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archenemy Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 Question refinement: How much did your wages go up as a direct result of union efforts and sucess? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomtom Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 So the union has the right to tax workers? Taxation without representation? Hmmm. Uh, they ARE represented, whethr they join the union or not. Do the 1%'ers have a vote on union matters? What is their representation within the union? Or do they have to pay extra for this right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marylou Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 They are represented in collective bargaining and contract stewardship issues, they have access to representation in cases of discipline or dismissal, and they can file greivances the same as a full member. The % they pay represents the % that covers these costs only. There's a formula every local union uses at the end of the year to determine the Beck Assessment (aka Agency Fee) as compared to to a full dues paying member. As far as voting, no, non-members do not have the rights of a union member at union meetings. As far as whether or not they vote with their bargaining unit in contract ratification, I can't remember whether they do or not. When I was doing Business Rep and negotiations for my union, I never had to have a contract ratified that represented any Beck Objectors. My Local only has three that I know of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayB Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 Are all the local theaters unionized? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marylou Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 Which workers Jay? It takes a lot of people to run a theatre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayB Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 Backstage types. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archenemy Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 Just so that people are not mislead: Everyone has access to representation in case of dismissal or discipline or anything else. You do not have to have anything to do with any union for that. This is a "benefit" we all have as Americans and do not have to pay extra for it by joining a union. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marylou Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 Just so that people are not mislead: Everyone has access to representation in case of dismissal or discipline or anything else. You do not have to have anything to do with any union for that. This is a "benefit" we all have as Americans and do not have to pay extra for it by joining a union. What representation? Can you get a free attorney if you think you've been wrongfully terminated? Can you do this without going to court? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayB Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 The union attorneys are working pro-bono? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marylou Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 Backstage types. Yes pretty much everywhere. It didn't used to be that way but people were so woefully underpaid and overworked that they've all opted to unionize over the years. In many cases wages went up 40- 50% and no one's gone out of business over it. We don't do all the sheds and arenas, but theatres, yes, definitely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayB Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 Interesting. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archenemy Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 The union attorneys are working pro-bono? Nope. And the idea that union people (apparently) have that any atty is "free" just adds to the whole bullshit lawsuit crap. Sad. Oh, and, you always have the option of Pro Se representation. Free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archenemy Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 Backstage types. Yes pretty much everywhere. It didn't used to be that way but people were so woefully underpaid and overworked that they've all opted to unionize over the years. In many cases wages went up 40- 50% and no one's gone out of business over it. Wow, no company has gone out of business after it was unionized? Amazing. All my history books are wrong. All my Professors were wrong. Silly fools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marylou Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 Our atty is on retainer, but unless we have a lawsuit going on or something major like that we rarely use him for anything. I do remember his office helping our local to come into compliance with Beck. Busniess Reps generally take care of most of the "legal" stuff, it's not really rocket science to negotiate a labor contract or represent a worker in discipline or termination cases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archenemy Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 Our atty is on retainer, but unless we have a lawsuit going on or something major like that we rarely use him for anything. I do remember his office helping our local to come into compliance with Beck. Busniess Reps generally take care of most of the "legal" stuff, it's not really rocket science to negotiate a labor contract or represent a worker in discipline or termination cases. The deal sweetens. So, what you are saying is that the benefit of having 2% of your paycheck taken from you is that you get to pay an atty for doing nothing (little factiod: having someone on retainer does not mean "free") So if it isn't rocket science, why pay an atty? Why need people to represent you? Are union workers that stupid? As a contractor, I had to agree to contracts with every job. You are right, it wasn't rocket science. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marylou Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 Aww, thanks for your concern about my Local's well-being. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joblo7 Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 i am concerned for your local well being. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archenemy Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 What I am concerned about is that the current crop of Unionites seem to think that because they decided to put their efforts into bargaining for increased wages, better working conditions, etc that they then somehow get the "right" to charge other people for their efforts. It is an outrageous arguement that "because you benefit from my (voluntary) efforts, I get to charge you (against your will)" Parenthetical items are the obviously unstated truths underlying what self-rightious Union people say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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