Jump to content
  • Announcements

    • olyclimber

      WELCOME TO THE CASCADECLIMBERS.COM FORUMS   02/03/18

      We have upgraded to new forum software as of late last year, and it makes everything here so much better!  It is now much easier to do pretty much anything, including write Trip Reports, sell gear, schedule climbing related events, and more. There is a new reputation system that allows for positive contributors to be recognized,  it is possible to tag content with identifiers, drag and drop in images, and it is much easier to embed multimedia content from Youtube, Vimeo, and more.  In all, the site is much more user friendly, bug free, and feature rich!   Whether you're a new user or a grizzled cascadeclimbers.com veteran, we think you'll love the new forums. Enjoy!
Sign in to follow this  
canadug

MADE IN CHINA! BD Cams

Recommended Posts

Sure is smokey in here.

 

Where is the rash of C4 failures occuring in the field as a result of this sudden degredation of quality?

 

Does anybody have any actual evidence that current BD equiptment manufactured in China no longer meets acceptable safety and quality standards?

 

Sounds like a lot of scare-mongering to me. If anyone is suddenly wary of the chinese C4's, then sell them. I'm sure you can find plenty of buyers. :rolleyes:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For being made in china, the BD products are very expensive.

As for cams, the latest version of the Wild Country friends perform better than the BD's in almost every situation weigh far less and are half the price (reatail for 35 bucks and almost always on sale for 28).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Someone stated that climbers are tightwads. You only have to peruse my rack peppered with first generation rigid stem Friends to confirm that. :laf:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My rack is basically all BD stuff. I love the cams and untill quality is questioned I will continue to hang dog on them all day long. Yes they are a bit on the spendy side but they are sooo nice.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I want to know that my gear is made in the States and not thousands of miles away and then shipped here. It makes me feel better. It also makes me feel better that when I spend money that is totally irrelevent to everyday survival (like cams and climbing) its at least going back to the States.

 

Curious to see your rack, since you exclude products by

 

Petzl

Charlet-Moser

Grivel

Mammut

Trango (cams and nuts made in the Czech Republic)

Wild Country

DMM

Beal

Camp

Edelrid

On Sight

Arcteryx (those Canadians are pretty sketchy, though)

 

and others.

 

Not talking about companies based out of the States. Out of your entire list, none of these companies began in the States.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One word - Metolius.

 

Most, if not all, goodies are designed and manufactured by locals right here in the great NW, in Bend Orygun. The cams certainly are. Next time you're taking a rest day at Smith, if you ask nicely you can likely get a tour of the whole place - machine shop downstairs and sewing room upstairs. It's really fascinating to actually see cams being made. (Last time I was in, I recall a 1:1 ratio of people to dogs on the sewing floor.)

 

If y'all are truly concerned about supporting local economies and the related tax base, consider a truly local company. And yes, I do have gear from a dozen manufacturers from several continents, but for small to mid range cams, it's Metolius for me.

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
For being made in china, the BD products are very expensive.

Very few companies pass on production cost savings to their customers in lieu of taking greater profits. Why do you think they move to a "low cost" environment in the first place?

 

Unfortunately, the "low cost" part is not likely to last as China's aspiring middle class factory workers and production engineers start earning higher wages, the competition for raw materials increases and China transforms itself into a full blown western style economy.

 

The company I work for has a couple of factories in China and one of their biggest problems is employee retention. As the demand for skilled workers starts to exceed the immediate supply, people are jumping ship for better pay, benefits, etc. that are starting to approach those in the West. The same thing is happening in India.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hell, I'm an engineer in Salt Lake and I'd jump at the opportunity to go to China for awhile. There's a TON of granite there just waiting for some lovin'...

 

Oh SNAP!...I haven't even BEGUN to tap the granite around here yet.

 

All funin' around aside, there are numerous US environmental companies teaming with Chinese companies to tackle the environmental problems facing China. Granted, they have a long way to go.

 

I think BD has the opportunity to spread the message by example, IF they choose such a course. Most US companies that go to 2nd or 3rd world nations to manufacture, log, mine, or otherwise capitalize on resources simply meet the minimum standard with respect to environmental laws or ethics. I'd love to hear more about BD's ethos there. Is the spirit of Chouinard being trampled?...or spread to new cultures? Only time will tell.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"Like gunpowder, silk, and the compass, beautiful women were invented in China" - but what about camming technology? We know Lowe and Jardine stole it from Abalakov but who did Abalakov steal it from? Maybe cam manufacture is returning full circle.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
One word - Metolius.

 

Most, if not all, goodies are designed and manufactured by locals right here in the great NW, in Bend Orygun. The cams certainly are. Next time you're taking a rest day at Smith, if you ask nicely you can likely get a tour of the whole place - machine shop downstairs and sewing room upstairs. It's really fascinating to actually see cams being made. (Last time I was in, I recall a 1:1 ratio of people to dogs on the sewing floor.)

 

If y'all are truly concerned about supporting local economies and the related tax base, consider a truly local company. And yes, I do have gear from a dozen manufacturers from several continents, but for small to mid range cams, it's Metolius for me.

 

 

 

On another thread--the topic was supporting local and/or organic businesses, one of the folks here mentioned that it doesn't make economic sense to support something local just because it is local. Businesses need to evolve to remain competitive in a changing environment--that is part of what keeps capitalism healthy and alive. It was a good point, and may be applicable here.

 

We complain about various abuses in China, but without income, how will any of that change? Simply boycotting a product won't do much--we know that sanctions on any scale often don't work. And not buying BD just b/c it is made in China is not going to do anything to clean up their environment or change their work policies.

 

Just food for thought.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

some more food for thought - buying close to home helps your neighbors eat. it's at least worth taking into consideration, along with the many other things that you'll be thinking about when you buy your next set of cams.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When petroleum goes to shit in the next few decades, globalization is no longer going to make sense (economically). Local economies which minimize long distance transportation will be back in vogue. If China and India ever have the chance to reach the level of so called affluence that the US has a the moment, the whole world is going to shit - given the ridiculous energy, resources, etc that the average American uses. Hopefully we'll start to see the tide turn to more conservative lifestyles for Americans in the coming decades. The fact that all our manufactured goods are now being made in China does not bode well for the US, because many of those jobs are going to have to come back here eventually. As an engineer myself, I have yet to EVER see a product not lose quality after its manufacture was exported to China. As others here have said, it's not that they couldn't necessarily be manufactured as well in China (although right now, on the whole Chinese quality control is absolutely substandard, bar none), but more that the whole "build it as cheap as we can" mentality that is intrinsically intertwined with resorting to Chinese labor naturally breeds a lack of care for quality. The ever more disposable, ever more Wal-Mart driven US economy is just making the richest richer and the poorest poorer, more than ever. Exported labor represents a loss of middle class jobs in the US, just so the now marginalized US middle class can buy a whole bunch of useless shit at big box stores! The corporate execs moving all the chess pieces don't care... they're still getting rich. And of course Americans are too dumb or too cheap to give a damn. It's going to come back and bite us in the ass. BD is making a big mistake putting out cams from China. I watched Starrett machine tools do the same thing... built the best machine tools in the world in MA, USA for a century - now produce crap. For something that counts, for numerous reasons, I'll pay more any day to get a quality domestically manufactured product.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
some more food for thought - buying close to home helps your neighbors eat. it's at least worth taking into consideration, along with the many other things that you'll be thinking about when you buy your next set of cams.

 

Some of my neighbours, particularly to the south, eat too much. :chebit: I support helping them diet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Agreed. If my neighbors can't produce a quality product for a competitive price, then I don't need to buy more McD's food for them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Agreed. If my neighbors can't produce a quality product for a competitive price

 

since the price is unchanged, and the debate on quality has no datapoints, why is buying rice better than mcdonalds?

 

(unless you've got some farcical notion of "high value added")

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Sign in to follow this  

×