JayB Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 I'm a big reverso fan, but from time to time I've had to lower folks that I've been belaying off of the anchor in auto-lock mode, and it's been kind of a P.I.T.A. Thankfully, they've been conscious, in a position where they could help unload the rope, and it wasn't an emergency situation - so I've installed either a second belay device in the brake line - or set up a munter hitch - and had them unweight the load strand. Once they've done so, I just remove the Reverso and transfer the load to the belay-device/munter, and lower. This isn't always terribly easy when someone's in free-hanging mode, and I've started thinking about a way to use a bit mechanical advantage to unlock the Reverso that involves a minimum of clusterage. I'm not sure where I saw this, but the best idea I've come across so far involves: 1)Girth-hitching a prussik-loop to the top of the Reverso. 2)Clipping a carabiner to something that's at least a few inches above the reverso. 3)Running the end of the prussik-loop through the carabiner that you've clipped above the Reverso. 4)Clipping a second carabiner to the back of the Reverso, then running the end of the prussik-loop through this carabiner to create a z-pulley. 5)Pulling up on the end of the prussik-loop with one hand, while keeping the brake hand on the brake line. I was able to use this system to release (pretty easily) a 140-lb free-hanging load, and control the lowering by using the tension on the prussik-loop and the brake line, and it took all of about 30 seconds to set-up. Release the tension on the prussik-loop and the Reverso locks immediately, so your chances of dropping the person you are lowering are effectively nil. Anyone else have a different system? Comments? I couldn't find a picture that showed this set-up elsewhere on the web, so my artistic rendering of this system is below. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crmlla2007 Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 From Petzl: http://en.petzl.com/petzl/SportConseils?Famille=12&Conseil=34&Cadre=0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 The method Petzl gives is exactly the same as that given by Trango for the B52. I've tried it in the gym, and it works. Instead of clipping the release sling to your harness, you can also just step in it, assuming it's long enough. The key is the use of the Munter Hitch to take over the belay. This is the safest way to proceed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayB Posted October 1, 2007 Author Share Posted October 1, 2007 Sweet. Looks faster, safer, and easier. And from Petzl of all places... Thanks for the link. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RocNoggin Posted October 13, 2007 Share Posted October 13, 2007 how does the biner that the belay rope goes around go from below the z-pulley system in fig. 1 to above the z-pulley system in fig.2? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted October 14, 2007 Share Posted October 14, 2007 how does the biner that the belay rope goes around go from below the z-pulley system in fig. 1 to above the z-pulley system in fig.2? The answer is that it could not. That is a small error in the drawing, but it's immaterial to the discussion. But that reminds me to mention one thing about the Petzl method, in which that particular biner is pulled upward to release the autoblock. That biner must be set to one side of the keeper loop. Otherwise the loop will trap it and it could get damaged on a B52, although not on a Reverso. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drederek Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 So just out of curiosity, why be so loyal to a device that has, er, screwed you (more than once) when there are plenty of others that won't? Perhaps the drvice is the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pink Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 a reverso was a mediocre attempt at a better mouse trap IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 (edited) What the heck are you talking about? No one said anything about being screwed by their belay device. B-52, Reverso, ATC Guide, they all work pretty much the same with regard to autoblock mode. You have two choices for lowering a second in autoblock. One is rigging a sling to tip the device downward. The other method is to pull the locking biner upward. The former supposedly can allow one to ease out rope, whereas the latter method is all or nothing and requires a back up by a Munter Hitch. Edited October 15, 2007 by catbirdseat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drederek Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 I'm a big reverso fan, but from time to time I've had to lower folks that I've been belaying off of the anchor in auto-lock mode, and it's been kind of a P.I.T.A. Thankfully, they've been conscious, in a position where they could help unload the rope, and it wasn't an emergency situation - so I've installed either a second belay device in the brake line - or set up a munter hitch - and had them unweight the load strand. Once they've done so, I just remove the Reverso and transfer the load to the belay-device/munter, and lower. This isn't always terribly easy when someone's in free-hanging mode, and I've started thinking about a way to use a bit mechanical advantage to unlock the Reverso that involves a minimum of clusterage. I'm not sure where I saw this, but the best idea I've come across so far involves: 1)Girth-hitching a prussik-loop to the top of the Reverso. 2)Clipping a carabiner to something that's at least a few inches above the reverso. 3)Running the end of the prussik-loop through the carabiner that you've clipped above the Reverso. 4)Clipping a second carabiner to the back of the Reverso, then running the end of the prussik-loop through this carabiner to create a z-pulley. 5)Pulling up on the end of the prussik-loop with one hand, while keeping the brake hand on the brake line. I was able to use this system to release (pretty easily) a 140-lb free-hanging load, and control the lowering by using the tension on the prussik-loop and the brake line, and it took all of about 30 seconds to set-up. Release the tension on the prussik-loop and the Reverso locks immediately, so your chances of dropping the person you are lowering are effectively nil. Anyone else have a different system? Comments? I couldn't find a picture that showed this set-up elsewhere on the web, so my artistic rendering of this system is below. Uh, the original poster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
selkirk Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 Um, how far are we talking about lowering? I've usually had pretty good luck with either A) Grabbing the free biner (not the one connected to the anchor/belay loop, but the other one that the rope runs around) and just pulling/redirecting it enough to allow rope to slip a little B) If they can get off the rope for a moment taking the free biner (the one not connected to the anchor/belay loop) and just snapping it into my belay loop, so that it now acts in regular mode. (Though this really requires that you use it in Autoblock mode off your harness, which I often do.) (Remember, as it's loaded across the spine, whether or not it's open has no bearing on it's strength, so having it open for a moment while you connect it to your harness doesn't decrease it's strength. The only danger would be if you actually managed to get the rope out of the biner while you transition onto your harness, which would take an effort to do so and extreme stupidity to try.) or C) Make the wanker on the other end prusik a few feet. If were talking about a non-responsive climber, a long lower (more than say 1/4 of the rope length), and/or a lard ass (whom you can't redirect the device and lower) the block and tackle with a munter will probably be necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Telemack Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 You could try belaying the second w/ a Grigri if this is a big concern. Petzl is a good source for doing this too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelawgoddess Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 the reverso rocks. use a 'biner and get on with yer life. :-p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayB Posted October 17, 2007 Author Share Posted October 17, 2007 Incidents in question involved folks who were in situations where they'd have had extreme difficulty easing the load on the rope even for a few seconds. I wasn't dealing with completely incapacitated or unconscious seconds, in which case other measures might have been necessary - but merely folks who weren't having a good time and really wanted and/or needed to be lowered to the ground ASAP. At the time - all I could think of were more complicated, more time consuming ways to unload the Reverso, and it seemed to me that there had to be an easier way to do things. The method I proposed works (I used it to easily unlock a 160lb free-hanging load, and I rigged it up in about 20 seconds) - but Petzl's method is better so that's what I'll use going forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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