Delmarco Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 I was online this summer looking to replace my heavy one piece TNF goretex suit with a lighter bib for ice climbing & other snow ventures. I couldn't find any decently priced technical bibs but I did come across this article about gear that was most interesting. For me it basically speaks volumes about the way outdoor gear manufacturing has become mostly a profit making industry for companies and less of a "catering" industry for people like you and me (I think there should be a healthier balance). read on... February 10, 2006 TOPIC: Have bibs gone the way of the one-piece '70s ski suit? READER QUESTION: Why have high-end gear manufacturers like Patagonia and The North Face completely dropped bibs from their alpine climbing and skiing lines? I couldn't imagine skiing in deep powder or mountaineering in anything but reinforced, technically oriented Gore-Tex bibs. Have bibs gone the way of the one-piece 1970s ski suit? — Michael Vancouver, British Columbia GEAR GUY's REPLY: I have to agree with you, Michael. I can't imagine skiing in heavy, deep snow, or embarking on certain mountaineering trips, without a good waterproof-breathable bib. I have a (now somewhat ancient) Gore-Tex pair from Moonstone that still serve me well, and for skiing I like my now-unavailable Patagonia bib, which is sewn together and fitted with the care of an Italian suit. And therein lies the problem. Bibs are very complex pieces of clothing, which makes them expensive to design and make. Then there's the fact that the market for them is fairly limited—alpine skiers would be the biggest market, yet for reasons I can't fathom, people just don't "get" their utility. So, there are fewer bibs available now than were around ten years ago, but you aren't out of luck. Marmot, for instance, makes a really classic bib called the Spartan Bib (Spartan, get it? Because people who wear them must be tough). It's made with durable three-ply Gore-Tex XCR, and for skiing has reinforcements around the cuff. Add to that package internal gaiters, waist and chest pockets, and even a map pocket at the thigh. All very nice stuff, though at $390 also a little steep—even though the Canadian dollar goes further than it used to (www.marmot.com). Hey, that's right, you're Canadian! And in Vancouver. So just trot over to Mountain Equipment Co-Op on West Broadway. Buy a pair of the Shield Bib Pants ($290 Canadian; www.mec.ca), which also have Gore XCR and the added trimming of stretchy Schoeller fabric around the waist. There, problem solved. Go say hi to my friends at La Bicicletta, just across the street. One of the world's great bike shops. These are currently the only decent bibs I could find online and they go as low as $425. It sucks that the Prada of the outdoor gear companies, Arcteryx, makes and prices them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cj001f Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 buy the theta pants retrogrouch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baltoro Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 That makes a great point that a lot of people can't come to grips with that gear is not really made for "core" users. Everyone of course considers themselves to be "core" but to a lot of gear companies, "core" customers are brand new, and need to buy a lot of stuff, and they really don't need 3 layer Gore-Tex Pro bibs. GTX was not put into the outdoor industry for ski bums who probably bro-dealed the stuff in the first place. True "core" users can benefit from the products generated for the average consumer (like Gore-Tex, Schoeller, etc) but we shouldn't get too upset when the vast majority of products aren't "geared" towards us. Sorry but I couldn't help from inserting the cheesy "geared" pun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cj001f Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 Except for retreogrouchs I don't know any "core" users who want bibs anymore. Why do you need 2 layers of goretex for your chest? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-spotter Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 why should companies make something that the sales are so minimal of that they lose money? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cj001f Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 why should companies make something that the sales are so minimal of that they lose money? totemic loss leader for hallow marketing? Same reason The North Face bought A5...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-spotter Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 TNF bought A5 so they could turn it into a fashion label selling cotton t-shirts and flipflops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cj001f Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 TNF bought A5 so they could turn it into a fashion label selling cotton t-shirts and flipflops. No, that's the only thing they could figure out to do with it once they owned it after their "big wall is the next big thing" marketting bonanza failed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jordop Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 1. GoreTex bibs are sweathouses for actually moving in. Maybe for lift skiing . . . but for backcountry stuff they're gross hothouses. 2. Sofshell bibs, my person hobby horse: The ones made out of powershield lasted too long and were used by people who ran em into the ground. Low obsolescence in a smallish market = low # of units moved = discontinued by eggheads looking at the bottom line on every product rather than how SUCCESSFUL it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cj001f Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 softshell bibs are mf'ing retarded. A big bulky bib that doesn't breath and is hot, but doesn't keep out wet weather. Woohoo - sign me up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jordop Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 softshell bibs are mf'ing retarded. A big bulky bib that doesn't breath and is hot, but doesn't keep out wet weather. Woohoo - sign me up! 1. I dunno what sofshell fabric you're thinking of , but they all breathe 100x better than any laminate??? 2. If it don't keep out the wet weather, then maybe don't ski in the rain??? You seem to be in possession of a fabric that is more breathable than sofhells, but more water resistant than gore. Holy shit Batman, you found the shroud of maofucking Turin! Actually, the best fabric of all for the kind of breathable/waterresistant compromise demanded by moving constantly in below freezin conditions is uncoated nylon microfibre. MEC used to make a "windbib" which was just about the most unsexy, but most functional thing I have ever seen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-spotter Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 MEC made those one piece "ACC Fagbag" windsuits too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cj001f Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 1. I dunno what sofshell fabric you're thinking of , but they all breathe 100x better than any laminate??? 2. If it don't keep out the wet weather, then maybe don't ski in the rain??? 1) yeah, those Schoeller fabrics that absorb water breath real well when you've an ice crust. 2) gee, imagine going on trips for longer than a day! OMFG! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jordop Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 If I wore gore on a ski traverse I would die of legsweat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cj001f Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 I think the hyperbole would kill you first Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jordop Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 I haven't worn/needed/taken gore in the winter, iceclimbing, -30 below mtneering, multi-day ski traverses, whatever, in 7 years, and very few of my partners have either. For the users I know, the drawbacks of powershield/schoeller are FAR less than those of laminates. The only situation I have ever thought about wanting a laminate is on wet/lowangle iceclimbs of more than a few pitches. Otherwise, the heat I generate by moving is more than ample to keep the water on the other side of the fabric. Fuck, the Scandahoovians have known about this shit for years and stupid North Americans think that before goretex everybody had a really bad time in the winter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cj001f Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 the scandis I know all rock Norrona Goretex http://www.norrona.com Lofoten bibs - note a bib available in Goretex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suckbm Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 wild things makes a sweet pair of bibs made of event, worked pretty good so far Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jshamster Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 I love my Arcteryx bibs! Yes, they are freaking expensive, but I don't get wet in the wet Cascade snow anymore. As far as the sweat factor, I consider pretty carefully what I wear under them. Lift skiing I use a midweight layer, touring/climbing I use lightweight or silks. Cheers. Jimbo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenderfour Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 They had the Arcteryx Theta bibs on Steep and Cheap this morning for $190 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cj001f Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 They had the Arcteryx Theta bibs on Steep and Cheap this morning for $190 sweet bibs those are - note: they aren't full height, which is a plus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra_Commander Posted September 1, 2007 Share Posted September 1, 2007 every fucking canadian skier has a faded bright colored fart bag one piece somewhere in their closet, as far as I can tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eeyun Posted September 3, 2007 Share Posted September 3, 2007 MEC has new Protex bibs out for 325 CDN. Might be worth checking out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cj001f Posted September 3, 2007 Share Posted September 3, 2007 every fucking canadian skier has a faded bright colored fart bag one piece somewhere in their closet, as far as I can tell. every hipster young skiier has one now as well. whats frightening is they aren't retrohip in Chamonix ... eeek! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-spotter Posted September 3, 2007 Share Posted September 3, 2007 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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