Jonathan Posted August 12, 2002 Share Posted August 12, 2002 Hello, Although a long time MSR Whisperlight stove user (and before that the Svea 123), I’ve been intrigued by the new butane mixtures and the pocket rocket type burner units. But what can go wrong with them and how would you fix in in the field? How often do the seals on the canisters fail? If the burner clogs, how to unclog? Is the burner basically just a tube with a valve and flame spreader? Ciao for niao, Jonathan Pryce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon Posted August 12, 2002 Share Posted August 12, 2002 Your house could explode because you have a closet full of half empty (or is that half full) canisters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted August 12, 2002 Share Posted August 12, 2002 you could burn your horsecock! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedMonk Posted August 12, 2002 Share Posted August 12, 2002 i've heard alot that the pocket rocket uses only 1/2 a canister...how much time can you get out of a canister with the pocket rocket then? (in terms of hours of use) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeclimb9 Posted August 12, 2002 Share Posted August 12, 2002 quote: Originally posted by RedMonk: i've heard alot that the pocket rocket uses only 1/2 a canister...how much time can you get out of a canister with the pocket rocket then? (in terms of hours of use) The fuel canisters come in different sizes. From Primus, there's canisters with 225g and 450g fuel. SnowPeak has 'em with with 110g and 250g. MSR comes in 8oz (224g?). A good rule of thumb is that one "medium" canister (the 225g, 250f, or 224g ones) will do for two guys per day for melting snow and limited cooking (i.e. you're not simmering every meal for 20 minutes). I don't know how much that is in hours of use (besides, the duration of burn time would depend on how much you've got the stove cranked). The dilemma of the 1/2 canister can be avoided by using the small SnowPeak can. For melting snow, the canister will last much longer if you keep the flame kinda low (efficiency is inversely proportional to speed). As for the original question, not much can go wrong with the canister stoves. They've been around for several decades (remember the Bluet Gaz stoves of just butane?) and the kinks have long ago been worked out. They can clog, but this happens from spilled shiznit, not from dirty fuel, so it rarely happens. To clean, you screw it apart and blow. And you've got to check the O-ring and replace it if it's cracked. I got a couple with the piezo lighter, and that little feature is pretty useful (no singed knuckle hairs and almost no wasted fuel). A breakdown comparison of liquid versus canisters stoves is at MSR (http://www.msrcorp.com/stoves/choose_stove.asp). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted August 12, 2002 Share Posted August 12, 2002 "to clean you screw it... and blow" any comments trask? [ 08-12-2002, 03:41 PM: Message edited by: Dru ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allthumbs Posted August 12, 2002 Share Posted August 12, 2002 No comment, Dru. Your reputation preceeds you. HaHaHa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allison Posted August 13, 2002 Share Posted August 13, 2002 I've had my PR for over a year and used it in a variety of situations. Most recently last week. Four nights, two people, one 3/4 full canister. Used the second can for maybe 2 mins. I think an hour of burn time per canister is realistic under 3-season conditions under 10,000'. The idea that they only burn half of the fuel is bunk. I bleed and pucture my used cans at sea level, and there is almost no fuel left to bleed before puncturing and recycling, probably not even enough to boil one cup of H2O. There is a whisper of fuel left that the PR won't be able to burn up high. The best suggestion I can make about making the most of the canisters is that they work better if you keep them warm while they are burning. There are a few ways to do this but the most elemental method is to put your hands around the canister. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allthumbs Posted August 13, 2002 Share Posted August 13, 2002 you could sizzle your gu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erik Posted August 13, 2002 Share Posted August 13, 2002 jonathan.... there is nothing really to clog....the thing with liques fule is that you must turn it into vapro to burn..that is why you have to prime them.....gas you do not....so unless you spill couscous in it i see little to no cloging issues.... i think the canitster will be empty before the rubber seal on the canister will fail. granted there occasionally be manufacture mistakes plus it is easier to huff the butane/propane mixture for all you drug addeled adolescents... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cj001f Posted August 13, 2002 Share Posted August 13, 2002 quote: Originally posted by allison: The idea that they only burn half of the fuel is bunk. It's not that the stove can't burn all of the fuel in the can - the MSR canisters leave little left over. I don't like taking partially burned canisters on a trip - and I like taking a 2nd canister along as backup even less. So I end up with a bunch of partially used fuel canisters. Carl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hakioawa Posted August 13, 2002 Share Posted August 13, 2002 I have a MSR rapid fire. Its the big brother of the PR. As far as not burning all the fuel. Its true if you are lazy. The canisters get cold as you burn the fuel. If you burn them on snow they usually have a nice snowball attached to them when you are through. As they cool their efficiency goes down. Most people think these stoves do not do well at altitude. This is NOT true. The higher you go the better they perform. The efficiency is a positive function of both temperature and altitude (actually an inverse function of atmospheric pressure). So the best place to use these stoves in high up in the mountains during a hot summer day. The worst place is at sea level during a cold day. If the stoves don't do well high up, it is because it is because the decrease in temperature overwhelms the decrease in atmospheric pressure. Since you can't decrease atmospheric pressure very easily, you must increase the temperature of the fuel. What I do is take he lid of my pot, fill it with boiling water and rest the fuel canister in it. This immediately increases the heat output of the stove by a LOT. Maybe 3X. If you keep this water hot, you will use almost all the excess fuel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeclimb9 Posted August 13, 2002 Share Posted August 13, 2002 quote: Originally posted by cj001f: So I end up with a bunch of partially used fuel canisters. Carl I got a collection too, and they come in handy for road-trip cooking. Or as campfire pyrotechnics. They make quite a satisfying "thwump" and tend to scatter the meek. Just be sure to laugh maniacally as you drop one into the flames. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_Parker Posted August 24, 2002 Share Posted August 24, 2002 Why don't they figure out a way to let you know how much fuel has been consumed/left. Even if you had to buy a little gauge to test at home before you leave. I'm sure there are trips where 1/2 cannister is plenty, but you don't dare because is a half, 1/3 or 1/4 left???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambone Posted August 24, 2002 Share Posted August 24, 2002 Jonathan, I think you will be happy if converting to butane. it's faster, lighter, easier, cleaner...etc,etc... I have used a pocket rocket since it came out, I couldn't pass up the price tag. I have never had any problem with it. Sometimes it seems as if there is no gas left when there really is, but if you take it off and rescrew it to get a better seal it works fine. I have been able to get all the furl out of the canister save a drop or two. One thing the MSR guy warned me at the climbing gym: Be sure not to wrapa wind screen really tight around the stove and fuel canister. I guess the PR actualy burns hot enough to exede the temperature warning on the canister, thaey have been known to explode! My partner claims that the Primus butane stoves are more fuel efficient, but I'm not sure. If you do lots of winter stuff or high altitude mountaineering, go with the Stormy/Markill hanging set-up, it rocks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhamaker Posted August 25, 2002 Share Posted August 25, 2002 >>My Whisperlite is now officially the largest piece of leaver pro in my rack, although it's let me down in so many other ways I'm not sure I'd give it one more chance on a rapp...<< Problem w/ compressed gass stoves: Gas leakage around the seal, or the valve opening while packed. I've lost fuel out of my Camping-Gaz and my white gas canisters - but I've always caught the white gas leaks because they smell worse. The new screw-on canisters seem to have a similar problem. I noticed the smell of gas while removing the 1/2 full canister. Gotta say I love the satisfaction of smashing the old Bluet EMPTY canisters. There seem to be two camps of people w/ wisperlights: Those who find them unreliable, and those who have had them for 15 yrs problem free. Do car owners fit into the same two camps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allison Posted August 25, 2002 Share Posted August 25, 2002 Never had a problem with leakage with the modern canisters, though I do make it a practice to unscrew the can from the stove when not in use in case the valve on the stove itself is out of whack. A variation on the Nelson method is to write down amount of burn time on the canister with a Sharpie after each trip. I do this, but honestly once you get used to using a canister stove you get a good sense of how much fuel is left in it by a highly scientific method: shaking the can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrible_ted Posted August 25, 2002 Share Posted August 25, 2002 quote: Originally posted by David Parker: Why don't they figure out a way to let you know how much fuel has been consumed/left. Even if you had to buy a little gauge to test at home before you leave. Jim Nelson recommends a using a small scale ("diet scale") to weigh your cannisters. If you weigh them when you get them, and write the weight on the cannister, you can later reweigh the cannister and determine how much weight you've consumed. It's great to see this discussion, and I hope it goes on a bit more: I'm in the market to make the jump to butane. My Whisperlite is now officially the largest piece of leaver pro in my rack, although it's let me down in so many other ways I'm not sure I'd give it one more chance on a rapp... -t Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Posted September 5, 2002 Author Share Posted September 5, 2002 As a followup, I have used the pocket rocket type stove on a couple of trips now, a successful Eldorado and Klawatti and a failed-flailed attempt on Jack. Granted the temps never dipped below freezing and the wind wasn't too bad, but the stove performed well. Nice and compact and light as well. Tried the dip-the-canister-into-the-pot-o-water-you-are-heating trick to maximize flame strength on a 1/2 full canister. Yielded a spectacular and immediate increase in flamage. Amazing depilatory effect on that unsightly knuckle hair on on my right hand. Use with care, amigos y amigas! Jonathan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Attitude Posted September 5, 2002 Share Posted September 5, 2002 quote: Originally posted by jhamaker: [QBProblem w/ compressed gass stoves: Gas leakage around the seal, or the valve opening while packed. I've lost fuel out of my Camping-Gaz and my white gas canisters - but I've always caught the white gas leaks because they smell worse.[/QB] A friend identified the white gas leakage from his Whisperlite by noting the large fireball around the stove. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allison Posted September 6, 2002 Share Posted September 6, 2002 Having met Jonathon by chance at a post-workout anti-Pub Club event last night, I can attest to the veracity of his statement about losing the hair off the backs of your hands. I must also admit that I've never had to use the Dip Trick, as generally warming the canister with one's hands is enough to do the trick. Never admit to a group of virtual strangers that you have ever visited this website. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaee Posted September 6, 2002 Share Posted September 6, 2002 Not much can go wrong with these things. I still tend to go with the XGK when I need to melt snow and the SnowPeak when there's running water. I've had REI folks tell me that if you don't use the SnowPeak fuel with the stoves you can have a problem with the canisters leaking. I have had one primus canister that leaked but I think it was a bad canister. The amount of energy you get out of the fuel is pretty equivalent. The main drawback is the canister weight and volume for butane stoves. There are significant differences in canisters. Primus seems to have a very thin wall compared to others, an has ligher empties. Plus, you can get the big'uns that hold a pound of fuel. However, since SnowPeak is imported locally to PDX, we can recycle those canisters at the MountainShop or Climb Max. I have melted the piezo igniter on my SnowPeak by using one of the tall folding windscreens. I had a small pot on the stove and basically surrounded the stove. That's definitely not recommended practice and now I use a windscreen just around the pot. But, that's also why I bought it from REI.... The word on the street is that Maybe Some Rec. equipment company will be coming out with a butane stove that uses a generating loop (runs the fuel thru the flame) so it can use liquid fuel. Then no need to worry about the temp of the fuel canister. It will have the canister on a hose or tube like the white gas stoves, so could be more stable. And hey, let's be careful out there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allison Posted September 6, 2002 Share Posted September 6, 2002 But you can recycle any of these canisters in curbside recycling, if you bleed them. We've been over that here before! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaee Posted September 7, 2002 Share Posted September 7, 2002 quote: Originally posted by allison: But you can recycle any of these canisters in curbside recycling, if you bleed them. We've been over that here before! Yes, but do the go back to the distributor so they can be reused? I believe that's what happens with SnowPeak canisters in PDX. If I'm wrong, I'm sure someone will point it out. I suppose I should have said "re-use" and that would have been more clear. Otherwise, not much point in making the trip to the gear shop, unless it's a marketing ploy. Obviously anyone would know you can recycle metal, even without searching the back articles. I have to admit, I don't usually search for back articles when answering a question. That responsibility usually goes to the asker of the question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pencil_Pusher Posted September 27, 2002 Share Posted September 27, 2002 I'm in the group that has a bunch of partially used cannisters. The Snow Peak doesn't mind when I use Primus so I use whatever is cheap. I like that lid technique described here. The pietzo igniter keeps on working. I think that hanging cartridge stove referenced on this thread was the same one these guys I met were using at 14k camp to cook, make water with, and warm up the tent (and evaporate off all that frost). They brought a regular white gas stove for higher up. I liked the idea of getting up in a relatively warm tent in the morning. They didn't speak of any asphyxia problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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