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IceIceBaby

Belaying with 8

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Belaying with 8 in the various methods,

How strong is the catch in the rappel mode if used as a belay method?

If familiar with Magic APD

(AKA, Salewa Guide Plate, Acme Guide Plate etc.) If useing the Magic APD in the rappel mode (like figure 8 rappel) as a belay device how effective is the catch of a leader

[Confused][Confused]

 

[ 05-18-2002, 08:23 AM: Message edited by: IceIceBaby ]

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quote:

Originally posted by IceIceBaby:

How strong is the catch in the rappel mode if used as a belay method?

Insanely strong. A "light" 8 can support a ton and a half. A regular one (like Clog) can support twice that, or more.

quote:

If use in the rappel mode as a belay device how effective is the catch of a leader [?]

Binary answer: yes. It is effective for single ropes (you risk friction sintering if you use for double, or twin, rope technique). It's kinda hard to feed out rope quickly, though. It's easier to use the smaller eye like a sticht plate.

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a figure-eight is certainly strong enough, but I believe the relevant issue is: how much braking force can I apply with a figure-8 device in rappel configuration?

the short answer is: between 2 and 3 KN. this range has been confirmed in both European and American laboratory drop-tests numerous times over the past 25 years. for comparison, a hip-belay averages slightly under 2KN, and older Sticht-style plates average about 4KN. the munter hitch averages around 5KN. I have not seen drop-test figures on some of the latest generation belay devices with the v-notches. Neither the UIAGM nor the AMGA approves the hip-belay, or the rappel-rigged figure-8 for belaying the lead climber.

You could probably get an "authoritative" answer to your question by contacting the folks at Rigging for Rescue, p.o. Box 399, Invermere, B.C. CANADA, VOA 1K0. Arnor Larson and Kirk Mauthner have some 25 years of independent drop-test data that they are pretty good about sharing. For some real fun & games, find a place to do some drop-testing of your own, and practice catching falls of factor-one and greater with an inanimate 150lb load. Gloves are advised if you try catching a high-factor fall on a figure-8 rigged for rappel.

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Speaking of "breaking force" and figure 8s the fig-8 can break open a locked carabiner gate with ease if it levers on the gate while the small eye is clipped to the biner (descender mode). 2 people died in britain of this exact occurrence.

 

but fig-8s suck anyways even the funky ones with the ears.

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quote:

Originally posted by Dru:

but fig-8s suck anyways even the funky ones with the ears.[/QB]

The 8 if used properly is a great device it can be used multi frictional... it can be locked off on rap in an instance by just swingin the rope into lock postion... In alpine you can adjust your friction of belay or rap for changing circumstances.

Don't believe that kinks in the rope crap, it's lowering that puts the kinks in your rope!

Your not one of those plastic pullin Gri Gri Jym monkeys are you ?

8's are from old school and have lasted the test of time because they work.

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quote:

Originally posted by richard noggin:

quote:

Originally posted by Dru:

but fig-8s suck anyways even the funky ones with the ears.

The 8 if used properly is a great device it can be used multi frictional... it can be locked off on rap in an instance by just swingin the rope into lock postion... In alpine you can adjust your friction of belay or rap for changing circumstances.

Don't believe that kinks in the rope crap, it's lowering that puts the kinks in your rope!

Your not one of those plastic pullin Gri Gri Jym monkeys are you ?

8's are from old school and have lasted the test of time because they work.[/QB]

Fig 8s are about as functional as #11 hexes slung on rope. I got one I will trade for beers. [big Drink][big Drink] if you think they are that good.

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Is this a Troll? Oh yeah that #11 hex in a columner basalt bottle neck is one of the most secure gear placements you could ask for and way lighter than one of those wiggit camie thing a bobs that rotate become fully open and the old one the cams would fold and the placement would pop [Eek!]

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...and the 8 does put twists in on rap...if you have multiple 8's going down a line it pays to have an ATC (or something similar) go down last to deal with the carnage. [big Drink]

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