Greg_W Posted April 17, 2002 Share Posted April 17, 2002 Thanks for all the input. Does anyone have experience with Mountain Technology's Vertige tools? It looks like a good tool with a good price at MEC. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted April 17, 2002 Share Posted April 17, 2002 Charlet SnoWalker is full strength steel and is about 2 grams lighter than the Grivel air Tech not to mention about $20 cheaper at MEC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceIceBaby Posted April 17, 2002 Share Posted April 17, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Greg W: Thanks for all the input. Does anyone have experience with Mountain Technology's Vertige tools? It looks like a good tool with a good price at MEC. Greg The only thing that I will be worried about is replacement parts otherwise good English made tool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg_W Posted April 18, 2002 Author Share Posted April 18, 2002 Am interested in alpine/ice climbing, but don't know much beyond manufacturer propaganda regarding ice tools. Can anyone give me some frontline feedback on tools, and associated features, that they are happy with? Are curved shafts a must? Is there a way to test drive before you buy? I'm clueless here. Price is an issue, but quality is the ultimate decider. Any input would be greatly appreciated...Thanks. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeclimb9 Posted April 18, 2002 Share Posted April 18, 2002 With the advent of newer ice-axe designs, choosing one has become a compromise proposition. And one influenced by personal preference. But here are some biased generalities: curved shaft tools are great for ice- and rockandice- only climbs. Really great for vertical ice since the wrist isn't cocked at a weird angle. Not so great if you need to plunge the shaft in sintered snow. Some will do the plunging job okay, but all are more exhausting than straight shaft tools if you need to climb that way for 100s (let alone 1000s) of feet. straight shaft tools, IMO, are true workhorses. They do everything adequately, or better. I use straight shaft tools because I like their simplicity and how they work --meat and potatoes climbing. I use them on vertical ice, and that gives me more confidence when using them on less steep terrain. I've got X-15s and Black Prophets. My only minor gripe is that the pick end extends above the head (by design so that it can be hammered further into ice), and wears my palm when using the tool as a cane for hours on end. Manufacturers whose ice-axes I admire for quality and workmanship include BD, DMM (the Fly is a great alpine climbing tool), Grivel, and Charlet-Moser (always an innovator. Their Quark is one of the best tools out there). Gear demos occur around the country during the winter, and give climbers the chance to try out stuff for free. Some shops have rentals that you can check out (discuss with them recouping the rental fee as a price reduction when you purchase your choice). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willstrickland Posted April 18, 2002 Share Posted April 18, 2002 Totally depends on what you plan on climbing. There have been extensive discussions herfe concerining std mountaineering axes and the majority opinion by far favors either the Grivel Air-Tech Racing Axe or the BD Raven. There are a few threads on those, do a search for the links. For water ice, or alpine ice, it's going to be a very personal decision. Different sized hands, etc will influence your choice. How much plunging in snow you plan to do will influence your choice, costs will affect your choice (or if not, wanna take me out ice climbing? I need some new tools, you don't mind if I borrow yours do you?). You can often demo tools/cramps at ice fests, or when the manufacturers reps come around for demo days. Best thing is to figure out what you'll use it for, then go try all your friends' different gear or get to a demo. Do at least a pitch or two with every tool you can get ahold of. Swinging them in the store is in no way a substitute for using them in the real. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodchester Posted April 18, 2002 Share Posted April 18, 2002 GregW: One thing to remember: as with most things there is more than one way to skin a cat, there are many views of ice tools and axes. Starting out, there are ice tools and ice axes. Difference is that ice tools are geared toward steeper terrain/ice while ice axes (or mountaineering axes) are geared toward lower angled terrain/ice. I assume from your post that you are looking at ice tools...right? Ice tools come in a dissy array of brands and styles. Every year new models flood the market. Your goals and abilities should dictate your choice...as well as price point. Some will say that they will use an ice axe on very steep ice. Sure certain they will work, but are they the best suited for your purpose? No. Remember, there is more than one ways to skin that god damn cat. Picks: should be drooped or reversed curved as they say, for the steepest ice. these picks grip steep ice quite well. A pick that is not as curved is better on moderate ice (i.e. the BD Alaskan pick rocks on 50 - 60 degree) such as most alpine ice. Leashes: you want something that securely grips your wrist, even more so on the steeper ice. However, you also want to be able to either get out of the leash, diconnect the leash, or manipulte things whith the tool dangleing from you wrist. Style and taste on this. Shaft: Generally most everyone agrees with the se of 50 cm shafts. Most agree that longer is better on alpine ice. On steep water ice a curved or bent shaft of some type is preferred by most. It does save the knuckles. However, a straight shaft is great in the alpine envirment, it lets you plunge the shaft (self-belay) in a smooth manner. Yes, a bent shaft can work (Damn cat) but the straight shaft works better. I have a pair of BD shrikes which I really like. They are reasonably priced and handle anything I am going to climb. I have 50 cm bent shafts. one detachable leash (BD Robo) and one of the BD lockdown leashes. I have really come to like the lockdown and feel for the money and the "low-tech" advantages it offers, it is my favorite. I have one adze and one hammer. The negative is that the adze and hammer are fixed on these tools. Many want to use two hammers on steep ice and one of each in the alpine enviro. Normally in the alpine enviro I carry a standard ice axe and an ice tool. I would love to have a 55 or 60 cm shrike hammer with a straight shaft for alpine. I like the BD because I can put an alskan pick on the tool for alpine then put the curved for water ice. Also all BD picks are interchangable with all BD tools. They are easy to find where ever you climb. Just some input. There are many other here with different experiences and opinions. Try to borrow tools and check them out before you purchase any. Also get tools that fit the use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceIceBaby Posted April 18, 2002 Share Posted April 18, 2002 Oh no not again… Ok to sum it up and right down to the final words Ice axs- BD Raven, Grivel air tech racing Ice tools (allarounders) - CM Axar, BD Rage, DMM fly Its all depend on how big is you hand also look for the best price For more info about the above just do a search on the board [ 04-17-2002, 12:44 PM: Message edited by: IceIceBaby ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illimani94 Posted April 18, 2002 Share Posted April 18, 2002 Re. the Vertige. The last time I used one of these (some years ago now) the reverse curve pick was pretty steep. Hard to get a natural swing without bouncing the pick. They may well have changed this by now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laszlo_Pasztor,_Jr. Posted May 1, 2002 Share Posted May 1, 2002 What recommendation do you have on the length of a straight alpine axe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted May 1, 2002 Share Posted May 1, 2002 For general mountaineering, I carry a 65-70 cm axe. If you are going to concentrate on glacier travel and shy away from steep snow and ice, you might want a 75-80 cm axe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodchester Posted May 1, 2002 Share Posted May 1, 2002 The general ruyle on ice axe length is the steepr the terrain the shorter the axe, inversly the less steep the longer. Also, your height will factor in as well. When you are standing straight on flat ground let the axe rest in your hands with a loose grip. The spike should not extend down past your ankle bone. Again, shorter if getting on steep stuff. I am 72 inches and use a 70 cm. To each thier own... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_harpell Posted May 14, 2002 Share Posted May 14, 2002 DMM Fly $150 candian at MEC good for vert. ice and alpine.... check it out great deal if the tools work for ya....($166 american at REI i think). way cheaper in canada.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figger_Eight Posted May 14, 2002 Share Posted May 14, 2002 Straight shaft Carbon Fiber Black Prophets on sale at Black Diamond's website for $159 bucks. It's hard to beat this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambone Posted May 14, 2002 Share Posted May 14, 2002 BD SpecialsYup, sweet deal. Folks have been tryin to get a hold of these for a while now. I bet they will sell quickly. The ropes are a good price as well, if your looking for a good pair of ice chords. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Posted May 17, 2002 Share Posted May 17, 2002 Grivel just came out with a bunch of new and/or updated ice tools. They have two new lightweight alpine/steep ice tools that look great to me (see Grivel web site or Pro Mountain Sports in June). These new tools have a Fly-like shaft shape, take the standard line of Grivel picks (which are excellent hot forged picks) and have a really nice looking pared down head design (fully modular, e.g. hammer/adze and pick are both changeable). Grivel handles are skinny and easy to grip. The lightest of the new tools is reported to weigh only 18.3 ounces at 53 cm and with the standard steep ice pick. These tools come with a new and improved leash. The ultra light version ("light wing") has the same sort of open-ended aluminum alloy "spike" as the air-tech racing axe. The light wing looks like the ultimate alpine steep snow/mixed/glacier ice tool. There is also a rubber handled version with a steel pick that weighs 23 ounces. This looks like a great alpine tool for climbs where you'll run into more water ice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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