escapeclause Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 I've skiied at resorts all my life. Over the last five years I've been climbing mountains. This winter, it finally dawned on me: if I'm going to all the effort to climb to the top of a mountain, I might as well have fun and ski my way back down (when there is snow on the route). This year I've done Heather Ridge, Castle Saddle, and Sauk Mountain. Now I'm ready to consider a glaciated peak. All of the training I've ever gotten and every guide book I've ever read suggests roping up for glacier travel, however, I notice that there are a lot of photos of folks skiing down this or that glacier unroped! Does that make sense? Do back-country skiers rope up for the ascent and then uprope and ski down? Isn't that kind of dangerous? I can see the argument that by traveling at 20mph on two long planks, the proability of breaking through a crevasse would drop due to a reduction of the force and duration of the force applied to the snow above crevasses. However, how safe is it? Are there any statistics that show relative accidents of descending ski mountaineers compared to all mountaineers? Is falling in a crevasse on the descent unlikely to happen? Is the risk totally dependent on conditions, for example season, snowpack? Or is the risk of falling into a crevassea even an issue at all for those in the know! Someone please help me figure this one out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jens Posted July 7, 2007 Share Posted July 7, 2007 I think their are some very knowledgeable folks on this website that have put many more years on glaciers than me that hopefully will weigh in. --------------------------- Here is my two cents. Some Europeans I have climbed with view skis as almost -but not quite as safe as a rope. -------------------------- I have both fallen in and caught people that have fallen in crevasses on foot but have never known anyone personally (myself included) that has had a bridge break under them when they were skiing down. The key is to hit em' perpindicular even if you can't see them beacause they are covered- read the terrain. That being said, I HAVE had friends crash on skis and slide into crevasses though or misjudge jumping them on go in when on skis. -------------- I'd say have at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigtree Posted July 7, 2007 Share Posted July 7, 2007 I think the decision to rope up while glacier travelling on skis depends on a number of factors (e.g., route, knowledge of the area/glacier, season, snowpack, size of crevasses etc.). That said, I generally don't rope up skinning up or skiing down in these parts, but always pack some screws/axe/prussiks/slings, and if I'm travelling with a buddy, the guy behind is always packing a rope. As with most things in life, its a calculated risk and sometimes you get it wrong like this guy (I clipped the pic from the following link: http://www.turns-all-year.com/skiing_snowboarding/trip_reports/index.php?topic=7348.0) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DPS Posted July 7, 2007 Share Posted July 7, 2007 I have had a partner break through a snow bridge while on skis. Fortunately we were roped at the time and he was uninjured. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cj001f Posted July 7, 2007 Share Posted July 7, 2007 Ski touring in Europe I've never seen anyone rope up on the ascent or descent; crevasse falls are relatively few. Of course glacial touring routes see substantially more traffic than the US so there's both more regular testing of snow bridges and more people to drag your ass out (not to mention a rescue chopper a cellphone call a way). The answer would be "it depends" on the route, the party and the conditions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
korup Posted July 7, 2007 Share Posted July 7, 2007 Other thing to consider is the near impossability of arresting a rope-team while on skis. It can be hard enough with an axe and boots/crampons; with poles (even with Whippets) and skis, goooood luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beecher Posted July 8, 2007 Share Posted July 8, 2007 It is very difficult to ski while roped, unless you are simply sideslipping at the same rate as your ropemates. When you ski downhill on a crevassed glacier, you simply take the chance that you may fall in. Skinning up, however, I think it's worth it to rope up unless you are very confident in the conditions. Even though it would be difficult to get in an effective arrest position, the friction of the rope on the snow and the weight of the other people (unless they are upslope of the fallen skier) are probably enough to hold many crevasse falls. Also, it is challenging to kick turn while roped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cj001f Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 Other thing to consider is the near impossability of arresting a rope-team while on skis. It can be hard enough with an axe and boots/crampons; with poles (even with Whippets) and skis, goooood luck. another worthwhile point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ketch Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 May be one of those stupid points but a big part of the glacier bit is being real abaout your skills. I was on Baker for the last few days, turns were great and the corn is sweet right now. But I watched several that climbed all the way to the summit then fell and groveled their way down the Roman headwall some all the way to the saddle. On the climb up one can always say "this is far enough for me" and it is cool. stretching the envelope is not good on a known busted up glacier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
escapeclause Posted July 9, 2007 Author Share Posted July 9, 2007 But I watched several that climbed all the way to the summit then fell and groveled their way down the Roman headwall some all the way to the saddle. Do you mean that they started to ski down but their legs were so tired that they fell and couldn't stop on steep terrain? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilookeddown Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 I have roped up once while skinning up and never on the ski down. One of my regular partners weighs 75lbs more than me. I honestly don’t think I would be able to stop either of us if he were to fall and pulled me with him. I guess the way I look at it is I would rather only have one of us in a crevasse. We always have our harness on and each carry a rope and enough equipment to hopefully get the other out. It may not be the best way to travel but it is what we are comfortable with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ketch Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 But I watched several that climbed all the way to the summit then fell and groveled their way down the Roman headwall some all the way to the saddle. Do you mean that they started to ski down but their legs were so tired that they fell and couldn't stop on steep terrain? That's pretty much it. One poor guy was sliding and turning worse than the bunny slope. Would have been funny had it not been for the gaping crevase just a little way down slope from him. I think some wer just too tired others were not skilled enough. I felt sorry for the ones that looked a little too tired at the saddle, they still had 3500 vert of sweet to hopefully enjoy. Then again on the way out I was passed on the trail by a guy who had done the north ridge and then skied done the CD and was jogging out with skis all in about 14 hours total. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
escapeclause Posted July 10, 2007 Author Share Posted July 10, 2007 I have had a partner break through a snow bridge while on skis. Fortunately we were roped at the time and he was uninjured. Were you ascending or skiing down? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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