billcoe Posted June 30, 2007 Share Posted June 30, 2007 I was out at Beacon today and climbed with Jimmy O but now I'm at work trying to get some crap done and was pulling up some climbing photos and saw this one. (saw Joseph, Bud Smith and Scott Harpell and partner out there too and that was pretty much it, hardly anyone climbing today). Anyway, Hanmi had taken these great pics on last Thurs cleanup and cause I'd just nuked and repaved my home windows machine, hadn't put a zip utility back on, so had to use the one at work. Check this out, I had to resize it, but JH is at least 300+ maybe 400 some odd feet off the deck, huge exposure (not really shown in the telephoto pic) he pulled this one off with slight pressure he said. Ivan and I were 1 pitch above the Se corner 1st belay, he sort of gasped in shock and called it a f*en asteroid, I had rapped down and was grappling with my own block when I heard it, turned and saw it damn near burning through the sky. Pretty loud too! What a great sight. The tracks were fine. As you get just before the Couchmaster start, just where the trail turns East, look at the trail, they both made impressive impressions: but the impact crater Joes made took off part of the rock that is the trail and is signifigant. Mine broke up, but hit right at the base of the start of Couchmaster/Cruisemaster starts and made an impact crater about 12" off the trail. You won't miss it as you are walking toward SE Corner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billcoe Posted June 30, 2007 Author Share Posted June 30, 2007 Great pics Hanmi! I gotta get to work, but heres 2 more. Damn, the site stopped working and I had to book, maybe later, or perhaps JH can load some. Sorry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted July 1, 2007 Share Posted July 1, 2007 Did you guys get the one above the SE corner? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephH Posted July 1, 2007 Share Posted July 1, 2007 If you mean the one above the p1 anchor, then yes, Bill and Ivan did that one and it surprisingly went down about 15 feet east of the snag tree and gap in the rock you squeeze through to head over to the p2 anchor. It made a hell of a ruckus as well from what I could hear up on Lost Warriors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phillygoat Posted July 1, 2007 Share Posted July 1, 2007 Why is trundling so satisfying?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted July 1, 2007 Share Posted July 1, 2007 Why is trundling so satisfying?! Earth moving Earth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephH Posted July 1, 2007 Share Posted July 1, 2007 It's nice to have the drop on one instead of them always having the drop on you. The rock in the photo is the smaller upper half of about a 6'x3'x2' triangular bullet sitting on a 45 degree angled ledge. The lower end of it was the only handhold at the start of an overhanging section on the last pitch and was incredibly tempting to use. On the FA Bill recognized it was a problem and everyone has been warned since on the few subsequent ascents it's seen. It came off with just thumb pressure on the wall when grabbed as that oh-so-tempting handhold. Glad to see it gone. Here is a pic of the frag pattern as it flies by LW p3: And one of Bill and Ivan working the Jill's block: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyHarry Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 Photoshop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 Yesterday I noticed a similar block on the last pitch of the NF of Concord Tower. Very tempting to use as a hand hold. It is just below the summit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weekend_Climberz Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 You should ask Ivan about the block he had to leg press for 5 minutes this weekend. That was a large commit. I thought it was a body at first Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephH Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 Hopefully he didn't have to cut off his leg to get home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hanmi Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 (edited) Thanks Bill. Here are a few more-- Enjoy! A wider view to show how high up Joseph was. He's a little speck circled in red. Before and after shots of Bill & Ivan on Jill's Thrill rap Edited July 2, 2007 by hanmi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephH Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 In that second from the bottom shot of your series you can see both of the big halves relatively intact just after the righthand one has hit and fragged, but just before the lefthand one does the same. Would be interesting to know which one blasted the crater. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weekend_Climberz Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 I love the smell of burning rock in the morning. mmmmmm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billcoe Posted July 5, 2007 Author Share Posted July 5, 2007 Photoshop. The camera gear she had weighed more than you. This remarkable sequence was caught by a great photographer, who knew the moment was coming, and was standing in the right position, right there and well prepared for when it did. I'll admit that it looks somewhat surreal in Hanmi's amazing pictures, but then, I will also admit that it sounded bigger than the pics show as well:-) BTW, as an aside, both JH and I have trundled a lot of rocks over the years. Lots. I'm sure I speak for both of us in saying that the direction which his took was a radiacally divergent direction than what both of us expected from our years of knowledge. Point being, be damn careful when cutting a big one loose, cause it's a lot like a pinball machine where the F*ing thing may end up. In this case anyway! Bigtime kudos to Joseph (and Erik Plunkett, BEacon Head ranger) for identifing these and lining up the work party with all the folks who needed to be involved. I'm ready for Ivans story now, his oration is top notch! Ivan, where are ya buddie? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EWolfe Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 I love the smell of flinted rock in the morning. mmmmmm There. That's more satisfying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underworld Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 i don't mean to start up a bolting thing again and i don't even know who the militant anti-bolters are on this site... but i'd be curious to know what they (and others) think about big cleaning efforts like this. pulling off loose blocks permanently changes the rock and is done to make things safe for climbers, right? all done by the judgement of some individuals. how different is this than bolting a route? just a thought?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivan Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 I'm ready for Ivans story now, his oration is top notch! Ivan, where are ya buddie? actually i can't remember a thing about that day - it musta happened during one of my blackouts? the last thing i can remember is comign to in a squalid double-wide covered in ketchup packets and rubber chickens - strangely, my head didn't hurt... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billcoe Posted July 5, 2007 Author Share Posted July 5, 2007 i don't mean to start up a bolting thing again and i don't even know who the militant anti-bolters are on this site... but i'd be curious to know what they (and others) think about big cleaning efforts like this. pulling off loose blocks permanently changes the rock and is done to make things safe for climbers, right? all done by the judgement of some individuals. how different is this than bolting a route? just a thought?? If you can touch a 10 ton rock and with slight pressure with your thumb and have it peel off the cliff, then it will be coming down sooner or later. Major cleaning effort? Talkin 2 loose blocks here. Interestingly, the block Kevbone wanted to know was knocked off, was one of the 2, and the more stable of them in fact. It should be indicative of how blatantly loose these were that someone walks up after the fact and asks if a specific block was one of the ones removed. If anybody wants that kind of thing just left, so that it can kill some unsuspecting person(S)who "accidentally" or "naturally" unknowingly pulls it off, then thats a pretty fucked up thing don't you think. These f*en things will come down on their own, when they want too, if left alone. I'll let you figure out how that is different as it seems clear to me it's 2 major different issues - just another thought?? ____________________________________________________________ Ivan, your Alzheimers acting up again? You don't look to be older than 55 dude, whatya gonna do when ya get real old? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
high_on_rock Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 I would assert that ethics are a gray area that some view as black-or-white. To those who view ethics as gray, there really is no difference between altering the rock in cleaning, altering the rock in bolting, or altering the rock to make gravel, if the purpose (human safety or human convienience) is the determining factor. Some would argue the same thing, climb bold or don't climb; others would say that it is reasonable for climber safety (same arguments for bolts or trundling loose rocks.) What is the difference between putting on an aid bolt ladder on Monkey face, or bolting plastic handholds on a route to assist a climber to climb a face that they cannot otherwise climb: In reality no ethical difference. I once pulled off a loose rock, and had a person complain that it was an integral hold and they wanted to bolt the rock to the face to keep it there: ethical gray area everywhere on that one. If we could convince climbers, nations, armys that most issues are gray, we could prevent most of the wars. Typically when people argue black-and-white answers to ethical issues, you need only look a little harder to find where they violate their own interpretations of the rules. Peace, love, brotherhood, and respect are the answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivan Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 i sure know what these guys would have to say on the issue can't say that i'd disagree either... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephH Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 It's actually more of an access issue at Beacon and there are some fairly unique circumstances at this crag. Primary among them is one of the busiest stretches of railroad tracks in the nation goes by about forty feet from the base at its closest point. The rail traffic significantly vibrates Beacon 24x7x365 and thereby is constantly [and unnaturally] contributing to the significant loose rock load there - particularly after winters with heavy ice loads. Our arrangement with the BRSP is that we will annually, and in emergencies, notify them of any rockfall hazards. Any rockfall hazards that threaten the railroad in particular need immediate attention and are addressed in coordination with railroad personnel. If someone gets killed, or track or a train are damaged, by an [identified] rockfall hazard there would be immediate and serious threats to access. Monitoring rockfall hazards and doing controlled drops in cooperation with the BRSP and railroad is very much a smart, pre-emptive approach to dealing with a particular class of potential access threats at Beacon. Your attempts to play games in a contrast to climbing-related bolting are a stretch too far under the best of circumstances, but in the complex regulatory situation out at Beacon it doesn't hold water at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phillygoat Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 Hey Trundlers- Pat and I did Dod's on Wed. and there was a little comic relief when I was sure that a 70m would get us down to the Reasonable Richard anchor. Pat went first and made it by employing what he called "Cirque de Soleil" moves. Anywho, before the fun and games I led Dastardly Crack for the first time. Immediately below the anchor is a pretty shaky-looking block that moved when I pulled on it a bit. The ground there is mellow enough that pulling on it isn't necessary, but I thought I'd mention it as it is above the main climbing area. Oh, it's probably the size of a toaster oven. (seems these things are always compared to household appliances) phillip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billcoe Posted July 6, 2007 Author Share Posted July 6, 2007 Thanks for the heads up Philly! Sounds like you had some good climbing in. BTW, to add to what JH said: This is signifigantly bigger thing than a person getting bonked on the noggin. All parks deal whith that kind of thing as a routine maner. Usually its some jackass just tossing a beer bottle at another person (see CArver park story uesterday), it can be all kinds of things, for all parks, even non-climbing parks, not just at Smith Rocks State park or Broughtons Bluff State park where climbers are. These ranges deal with stuff most of us don't even want to think about, let alone confront. Its amazing. Anyway- The last 2 winters has seen some large naturally occuring rockfall produced out at Beacon. As they do not currently allow climbers from Feb-July, we were not even there to see this happen or been in a position to help in anyway, but we witnessed the effects months later when we finally were able to show up to climb. (The year or 2 previous the trail on the hiking side, (the non-rockclimbing side) had been wiped out in the same manner. In the old days of year round climbing and less climbers, this would be dealt with as it was found, informally and immediately by the person who stumbled on it, and did not ever seem to build up into something resembling a massive fall. Typically, winter time saw only a few rare hardy souls there, and they took care of this kind of thing when they saw it. Jim O. may be the most obvious example, as he would spend days just cleaning out the ramp pitch on SE Corner, gardening Blackberry bushes here or there, and removing loose rocks all over the place. All winter these guys would do this kind of thing and just hang out because it's such an amazing vibe out there. Even in the rain sometimes. Shit, some times those guys would stay overnight for a couple of days to practice biving, and in the pre-ipod days, this cleaning thing seemed like a good way for them to pass the day: making the place better for all of us. At one time, for instance, you could literally only get 2 pieces in on the SE corner ramp pitch (slong with a single piton, still there, which I accidentally ruined), now if you had a 100 pcs of finger sizes you could stuff every damn one of them in that pitch. It's soooo damn much better now. All over out there. Cause of those dudes. Anyway: The RR tracks not only pass close to Beacon as JH said, but that very RR then passes at high speed with huge loads of all kinds of things literally within a few feet of one of the nations (worlds) largest and most important (environmentally and commercially) rivers with productive massive Salmon runs, massive amounts of power produced, huge tonnage of shipping of all kinds of things like grain exports, millions of people depending or living near or on it. The blast holes which the early RR was going to use to reduce Beacon to rubble are still there in the rock. The guidebook location callout for Dods to start next to the 3rd tunnel should read "3rd blast tunnel", because that is what they are. Erik (head ranger) speculated that the place commonly called "the Arena of Terror" is in fact a classic blast pattern from an old RR blast. Although it is past the time which the RR had Carte Blanch in which they could do what they wanted in the envirnmental area, climbers are in a unique, rare and important role in that we can, should, have in the past and DO help the RR in a huge way by assisting in early loose rock monitoring and dropping them in a controlled time, place and manner when needed. Recently with the closure, we show up in June/July and there seems to be a lot of winter rockfall to deal with which we never saw quite like it in earlier years for the reasons enumerated above. It may even be that it's been the same and we never noticed it when it wasn't closed, or maybe the weather has changed and affected it, but it is glaringly noticeable now. Who knows for certain? I suspect that if the RR knew the whole story of the closure, and climbers role in helping in this manner, they would be lobbying to have the rock opened for climbing year-round and only closed when the birds were preparing to select nests, and open if they were not seen to be actually nesting on the rock. They would see us as a cheap, unpaid early warning system wich might save them Billions of dollars through our unpaid preventative mainenance. They do not even have a liability issue if one of us got hurt, we do this for fun on our free time anyway! Anyway, I just wanted to add this to the discussion, as I see us as the good guys here, and it's not grey at all to me, but starkly, clearly and glaringly black and white. The freeze thaw cycle is a huge force of nature and although it can't be stopped, we can help mitigate the effects. Lastly, that whole bolting issue is such a dead horse which has been played out maybe a 100 times on this site alone. Do a search, put your question on that thread underworld. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underworld Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 it was a curiosity question... to see what things fall under safety, access, ethics, entitlement, etc... all of the above are gray areas if you ask me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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