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IceIceBaby

all around Ice axe

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quote:

Originally posted by imorris:
Yes, mine has those little spring metal things, sorry for the syntax error. I guess I'll try to pop them out. Would be a bummer if they fell out later though. I could just see someone yarding on the axe shaft and the head comes off.
shocked.gif" border="0

I'd try some epoxy on the little metal piece, or on the bolt you replace it with. That and a little watching should do well.Carl

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quote:

Originally posted by Zenolith:
re: re: axe. i have a 60 cm cassin dragonfly (got it for $50 from climb max in ptld) it is about the same weight as the air tech -maybe a tiny bit heavier. has a nice sliding ring leash and swings well enough due to the steel head. I hate the spike on the air tech.

"Steel head"? I've got a cassin dragonfly, but mine is a very light aluminum head - do they make different models of the dragonfly?

I find I rarely use it because I prefer the strength/weight of the chrome moly head on the Air Tech Racer. Anyone tried chopping glacier ice with the alum. dragonfly - is it up to the job?

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Raven looking really sexy but….Some concern about the raven: The attachment of the pick/ads part to the shaft (the triangular part immediately under the pick/ads) looking too thin, ravenPoint.jpg It seems that it may brake with a good whack on the ice. Although making for a very comfortable head. Also the whole head is a cast rather then stamp another reason to be skeptical. Did anyone try to climb black ice with that? In addition, did any one arrest accelerated fall on 55-degree angle with the raven?

[ 03-15-2002: Message edited by: IceIceBaby ]

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Believe it or not, I have a Raven. Even hikers cross snow ya know. I bought mine too long so I hacksawed the damn thing down to about a 62 or 63. I mixed up a batch of 2 part epoxy and reset the spike. I firmly believe it's as strong as pinning, if not more so. The pick on the Raven is SS and some techy material and it's doubtful that it would break under the load of a falling climber. Will it hold a car? Probably not. It really is super comfy to handle, is priced right, dosen't weigh a ton and looks cool. Good enuf for me anyway.

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quote:

Originally posted by IceIceBaby:
Raven looking really sexy but….

damn... you're not kidding! sometimes i see that baby hanging from my gear rack at home and i just wanna... oh shit, this isn't spray is it? well i guess it is now tongue.gif" border="0

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quote:

Originally posted by russ:
Anyone tried chopping glacier ice with the alum. dragonfly - is it up to the job?

Forget it. Had the Cassin Ghost at one time, just bounces right off of glacier ice. Aluminum is really only for use on moderate snow fields.

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I have a Cassin axe similar to the Dragonfly, but it has (I think) a steel head. The shaft may still be aluminum. I think the model name is "flash" or somthing like that. Maybe this axe is being confused with the dragonfly? I only use it on moderate snow, so I wouldn't know about it's durability for ice, but it seems pretty sturdy.

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quote:

Originally posted by primate:
I have a Cassin axe similar to the Dragonfly, but it has (I think) a steel head. The shaft may still be aluminum. I think the model name is "flash" or somthing like that. Maybe this axe is being confused with the dragonfly? I only use it on moderate snow, so I wouldn't know about it's durability for ice, but it seems pretty sturdy.

You're right. The Flash has steel alloy head and steel shaft. I used to have one, but sold it. I couldn't stand the shape of the head - not ergonomically friendly (look closely at the picture, good shot btw). The Ghost and Dragonfly (both aluminum) weigh about 8-10 oz. Seriously light, but not for serious mountaineering.

[ 03-14-2002: Message edited by: Jman ]

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I couldn't resist the sexiness of the Raven

So now I own them both the Grivel air tech racing (I already own it for a while and agree with the spike remark) and the BD raven the best of both worlds

Thank you all

smile.gif" border="0grin.gif" border="0cool.gif" border="0

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hey Zenith, another flash owner! I've used that axe for 7 years now and still going strong. J-man, the head is ergonomic if you hold the axe like euros with the pick forward. We could start a whole new thread with which is better, pick forward or pick back?

Anyway, the day my flash dies I will replace it with a grivel air tech and cut off the rubber grip. The design hasn't changed for over 10 years so they must have made something right. (except for the lame rubber grip) When was the last time a BD axe lasted production for more than 3 years? The thin spot in the pick and the hollow part in the head should be a concern.

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DMM Raptor in a 60CM (possibly with the optional reverse curve)(yes, I can self arrest with it).

Heavy, but it's got a HUGE adze, a spike that doesn't choke with snow or wear out and a good European handle on quality control issues. The 60 swings much nicer than the 65 and stays out of the way better on rock pitches and on approaches.

GB

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quote:

J-man, the head is ergonomic if you hold the axe like euros with the pick forward. We could start a whole new thread with which is better, pick

Just a note; Pick forward and pick and pick backward are to different techniques, not 'styles',pick forward is the self-belay position and pick-rear is the self arrest position. some people teach this and some tell you to always use one or the other.

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quote:

Originally posted by JoeTool:

Just a note; Pick forward and pick and pick backward are to different techniques, not 'styles',pick forward is the self-belay position and pick-rear is the self arrest position. some people teach this and some tell you to always use one or the other.

Now Im confused, if I have the pick perpendicular to my body, should it be pointing left or right to be in self-belay position, or does it depend which way I fall confused.gif" border="0rolleyes.gif" border="0

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Dru, a couple weeks ago I saw some people at paradise practicing self-arrest,they were holding their axes with the pick forward. they would either try to flip the axe over on their way down or use the adze. Needless to say they weren't very successful. thats the only reason I brought it up... [chubit]

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quote:

Originally posted by Rodchester:
The BD Alpamayo standard ice axe was around for more than a few years. My recollection is that it was made from the later 1980s until the late 1990s...but don't quote me on that.

I think the design is at least that old - I rented awhile back, a Chouinard axe that is identical to my Alpamayo - putting it pre-87.

As for axe durability - WTF do you people do with your axe's - Demolition? Trundling? Fee-Demo Direct Action?

Carl

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quote:

Originally posted by cj001f:
As for axe durability - WTF do you people do with your axe's - Demolition? Trundling? Fee-Demo Direct Action?

Impaction. The hooking action is key. shocked.gif" border="0

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Hey JoeTool, where did I say "style" for holding the axe? And rodchester, where did I say air tech racing?How come people are adding words to my post when reading? Maybe I lack writing skills.

Thought you all might find this interesting. In the new petzl catalog, they suggest self arresting with the adze in soft snow instead of the pick. Imagine trying to figure out the consistency of the snow as you flail downhill to determine which part of the axe to shove in.

[ 03-19-2002: Message edited by: genepires ]

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The BD Alpamayo standard ice axe was around for more than a few years. My recollection is that it was made from the later 1980s until the late 1990s...but don't quote me on that.

I am pretty sure that the Grivel Air Tech racing does not have a rubber grip, and the Air Tech does.

I looked at the new BD Raven and I must admit it looks nice with a very good balance between light and heavy duty.

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quote:

Originally posted by Rodchester:
The BD Alpamayo standard ice axe was around for more than a few years.

Indeed, and it used to have that cool option of working as a shovel handle too but they seem to have stopped that idea, unfortunately. I thought that was a nice solution, and it was tough to break.

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quote:

Originally posted by imorris:

Indeed, and it used to have that cool option of working as a shovel handle too but they seem to have stopped that idea, unfortunately. I thought that was a nice solution, and it was tough to break.

I still have the BD shovel and it works with the raven as well

grin.gif" border="0grin.gif" border="0

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quote:

Originally posted by imorris:

Impaction. The hooking action is key.
shocked.gif" border="0

As in Fecal Impaction? shocked.gif" border="0

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genepires, your right, I just interpeted your post wrong. What you wrote about pezl is exactly what I was talking about. The way I learned was that you hold the pick forward only when your self-belaying.otherwise your holding it w/the pick to the rear so you can arrest if you have to. [geek]

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