Weekend_Climberz Posted June 20, 2007 Author Share Posted June 20, 2007 I can't wait to bump this thread and the "Bellevue Rant Thread" in like two years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaskadskyjKozak Posted June 20, 2007 Share Posted June 20, 2007 LET'S TALK ABOUT GUN CONTROL NOW! AND REVISIT THE "STOLEN" 2000 ELECTION! FUCK YEAH!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weekend_Climberz Posted June 20, 2007 Author Share Posted June 20, 2007 Oh, your just happy he veto'd it twice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawks Posted June 20, 2007 Share Posted June 20, 2007 hey seahawks, if you somehow knew an embryo was going to grow up and become an abortion doctor, would you support aborting it to save all the future embryos? no, it would be murder. if you knew an islamofashist was planning a terrist attack, would you support launching a hellfire missle from a global hawk drone and killing the terrorist to save his intended victims? And this has what to do with killing a baby how??? Trying to draw me into where I draw the line still doesn't exstinguish the facts of right and wrong. The islamofashist was able to make his choice, did the fetus get the same choice? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaskadskyjKozak Posted June 20, 2007 Share Posted June 20, 2007 Oh, your just happy he veto'd it twice. My life doesn't revolve around what Bush or Pelosi or any DC politician is doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpinfox Posted June 20, 2007 Share Posted June 20, 2007 and every cell in your body looks that way under a scope. No, actually you are wrong. Your statement demonstrates a profound ignorance of human biology which is not surprising. ...dumb shit... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayB Posted June 20, 2007 Share Posted June 20, 2007 What defines us as humans is intelligence and that comes from developed brains. A human embryo does not have a brain and in that regard it is no different than the embryo of any other species of animal. After it has developed for 6 months it has a brain. That is when its humaness is realized. The clerics arbitrarily declared that we become human the moment an egg is fertilized. Well, that doesn't cut it for me. There is no logic in it and no thought in it. It comes from some sentiment that copulation is some sort of sacred ritual which creates a soul. Bah! I'm not taking sides against you here, just wondering how this rule would apply to someone with a severe brain injury, massive mental retardation, etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted June 20, 2007 Share Posted June 20, 2007 Like usual….you never answered my question…..I will ask it again… 1) If you had to choose between an embryo (that was scheduled to be thrown away the next day) that would help you’re dying mother from cancer. 2) Or you’re moral high ground that you should not kill a cell……mind you…..if you choose the moral high ground…..you’re own mother would die…… Which is it? Please do not answer a question with a question……. 1 or 2?????? I am still waiting.....1 or 2? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weekend_Climberz Posted June 20, 2007 Author Share Posted June 20, 2007 Like usual.you never answered my question..I will ask it again 1) If you had to choose between an embryo (that was scheduled to be thrown away the next day) that would help youre dying mother from cancer. 2) Or youre moral high ground that you should not kill a cellmind you..if you choose the moral high ground..youre own mother would die Which is it? Please do not answer a question with a question. 1 or 2?????? I am still waiting.....1 or 2? I hope you're not holding your breath....er, um...I mean, I do hope you are holding your breath. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvashtarkatena Posted June 20, 2007 Share Posted June 20, 2007 (edited) These embryos are raised for in vitro fertilization; which the Christian Right doesn't seem to have any problem with. Only a few are selected for actual use, the rest are destroyed. Again, the Christian Right doesn't seem to have a problem with this. But use the leftover embryos for stem cell harvesting? No way. Edited June 20, 2007 by tvashtarkatena Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawks Posted June 20, 2007 Share Posted June 20, 2007 (edited) These embryos are raised for in vitro fertilization; which the Christian Right doesn't seem to have any problem with. If they are not used for stem cells, they are destroyed. Go figure. How do you figure that? I think that is wrong. I know a couple that have two snow flake children. They have issues with it too. They are donating the snowflake eggs (fertilized) to couples that can't have kids. Edited June 20, 2007 by Seahawks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weekend_Climberz Posted June 20, 2007 Author Share Posted June 20, 2007 Go figure. Don't tell them to think, it makes them mad. Shhhh... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted June 20, 2007 Share Posted June 20, 2007 These embryos are raised for in vitro fertilization; which the Christian Right doesn't seem to have any problem with. If they are not used for stem cells, they are destroyed. Go figure. How do you figure that? I think that is wrong. I know a couple that have two snow flake children. They have issues with it too. They are donating the snowflake eggs (fertilized) to couples that can't have kids. So you think it is ok to raise them for in vetro.....which are for “possible” life (like 40% chance of conception) but not ok to do research on that could potentially save thousands? WFT Explain yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawks Posted June 20, 2007 Share Posted June 20, 2007 (edited) These embryos are raised for in vitro fertilization; which the Christian Right doesn't seem to have any problem with. If they are not used for stem cells, they are destroyed. Go figure. How do you figure that? I think that is wrong. I know a couple that have two snow flake children. They have issues with it too. They are donating the snowflake eggs (fertilized) to couples that can't have kids. So you think it is ok to raise them for in vetro.....which are for “possible” life (like 40% chance of conception) but not ok to do research on that could potentially save thousands? WFT Explain yourself. K-bone how many times do people have sex where the egg gets fertilized but never sticks to the wall???? Are you saying don't have sex??? Come on your arguments are just stupid. Also you even admit "which are for “possible” life" If it life then to Kill it is murder. Edited June 20, 2007 by Seahawks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvashtarkatena Posted June 20, 2007 Share Posted June 20, 2007 Let me me perfectly clear: Most embryos raised for in vitro fertilization are not implanted into humans: they are destroyed in the lab. It's a numbers game; you have to have plenty of back ups. Just like with the rest of mother nature. The pro stem cell crowd is merely arguing that these embryos, which will be destroyed anyway, not go entirely to waste. The Christian Right, of course, will have none of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted June 20, 2007 Share Posted June 20, 2007 K-bone how many times do people have sex where the egg gets fertilized but never sticks to the wall???? Are you saying don't have sex??? Come on your arguments are just stupid. Also you even admit "which are for “possible” life" If it life then to Kill it is murder. I am not following your thought process? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvashtarkatena Posted June 20, 2007 Share Posted June 20, 2007 In vitro fertilization isn't free there's a hefty fuckin' fee.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weekend_Climberz Posted June 20, 2007 Author Share Posted June 20, 2007 All in all, my opinion is that using them for research is okay. I respect Seahawks opinion because I do know where he's coming from with the whole "when life starts" debate. This is an issue that both sides will never agree upon no matter what the facts show. I don't think he's a hypocrit for wanting to kill terrorists, but not an embryo. I just hope it all blows over soon so that I can get my bionic arms and legs sooner rather than later. Imagine the debate that will stir. Come with me if you want to live: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted June 20, 2007 Share Posted June 20, 2007 Also you even admit "which are for “possible” life" If it life then to Kill it is murder. I believe the good of the many out weight the good of the few.....especially when the few are going to be in the trash by the end of the day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawks Posted June 20, 2007 Share Posted June 20, 2007 All in all, my opinion is that using them for research is okay. I respect Seahawks opinion because I do know where he's coming from with the whole "when life starts" debate. This is an issue that both sides will never agree upon no matter what the facts show. I don't think he's a hypocrit for wanting to kill terrorists, but not an embryo. I just hope it all blows over soon so that I can get my bionic arms and legs sooner rather than later. Imagine the debate that will stir. Come with me if you want to live: Wish we could even get along with the terrorists but I don't beleive its in the cards. They basically made it clear, it us or it them. Plus alot progress is already being made on adult stem cells which the media lacks to cover so they can sucessfully beat up Bush. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted June 20, 2007 Share Posted June 20, 2007 You say being a human comes from Development. This is Faulty. You are everything you are at conception. Every once of your genetic makeup is there. Before the egg is fertilized it is exactly the same as the mother. At conception it is totally different and life begins. It just convient to beleive these other thoughts to make it much more easy to kill 40 million babies. Hell we wouldn't want to feel guilty for murder. Thats way to harsh. You have the POTENTIAL to become a somebody at conception. You are a living thing. You are not a person. You and I will never agree on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawks Posted June 20, 2007 Share Posted June 20, 2007 You say being a human comes from Development. This is Faulty. You are everything you are at conception. Every once of your genetic makeup is there. Before the egg is fertilized it is exactly the same as the mother. At conception it is totally different and life begins. It just convient to beleive these other thoughts to make it much more easy to kill 40 million babies. Hell we wouldn't want to feel guilty for murder. Thats way to harsh. You have the POTENTIAL to become a somebody at conception. You are a living thing. You are not a person. You and I will never agree on this. So is it Self-awareness or consciousness that determines life to you??? A baby get Self-awareness at about 3 months or so of life, but we don't kill babies. If it consciousness, hell just knock someone in the head and its not murder. How do you determine it??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weekend_Climberz Posted June 20, 2007 Author Share Posted June 20, 2007 Go climbing, it's gorgeous outside right now!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawks Posted June 20, 2007 Share Posted June 20, 2007 (edited) Go climbing, it's gorgeous outside right now!!! true and I'm stuck at work. Going golfing at 6pm Edited June 20, 2007 by Seahawks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted June 20, 2007 Share Posted June 20, 2007 (edited) Plus alot progress is already being made on adult stem cells which the media lacks to cover so they can sucessfully beat up Bush. I agree that a lot of progress has been made, but it has thus far been in mice. We've cured cancer in mice many times and have not been able to transfer those breakthroughs to people. My understanding of the new technology may be faulty, but this is how I currently understand it. If you make a human stem cell, you'll still have to go through an embryo to get it. The recent breakthrough allows one to do it without starting with an egg. The end result is virtually identical to what would be obtained using fertilized eggs, except that it is a clone. Conventional cloning has used eggs in which the nuclear material has been replaced with genetic material from somatic cells. In this case, they've used four genes inserted via viruses to trick a somatic cell into "undifferentiating" to become an embryo. Edited June 20, 2007 by catbirdseat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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