NTM Posted June 4, 2007 Share Posted June 4, 2007 So a while back I was watching dosage IV with some friends and during the part in switzerland, dave graham puts on this knee-bar pad (looked like it had stealth rubber on it) to help hold a sketchy knee bar. right off the bat my friend says that's "fucking cheating" and that if it doesn't hold on his own, he should find another way to do the move. One friend was nice enough to point out that climbing shoes aren't that different and if those rules were to be followed, we should all still be in mountain boots. Later though, Tommy Caldwell is getting ready to do the Changing Corners pitch on the Nose, but instead of moving straight into it, he climbs up a crack on he left a ways, clips a bolt, then downclimbs and does the crux move on TR. Now, that same friend yells "climbing up easier ground to clip that bolt is cheating". So i'm just wondering where folks stand. not necessarily on thses 2 points, but in climbing in general. what constitutes cheating (aside from the obvious things like pulling on gear and claiming a free send)? and yes dru, we all know that cheating is aid and the one cheating is probly the one having the most fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted June 4, 2007 Share Posted June 4, 2007 and yes dru, we all know that cheating is aid and the one cheating is probly the one having the most fun. All attempts at preempting Dru are doomed to failure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenderfour Posted June 4, 2007 Share Posted June 4, 2007 Preempting Dru is cheating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-spotter Posted June 4, 2007 Share Posted June 4, 2007 Cheating is pulling on a yellow tape hold while doing the blue tape problem. If there is no tape it is not cheating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenderfour Posted June 4, 2007 Share Posted June 4, 2007 More seriously, this is a question of personal ethics. A consensus will never be reached.  If wearing a sticky kneepad to stick a kneebar is cheating (aid), then wearing carharts in a chimney is aid too.  Tape is aid  Shoes are aid  If clipping the bolt is cheating, then using a rope is cheating too. Cams are cheating. etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lI1|1! Posted June 4, 2007 Share Posted June 4, 2007 that 'no climbing with your knees' rule always kinda pissed me off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bstach Posted June 4, 2007 Share Posted June 4, 2007 Is it cheating to keeping pushing a cam up a parallel crack for 30' so it is just above you so you are always on "top rope"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-spotter Posted June 4, 2007 Share Posted June 4, 2007 Why stop at 30', what about 200'? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivan Posted June 4, 2007 Share Posted June 4, 2007 all the cool people are cheating Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted June 4, 2007 Share Posted June 4, 2007 Is it cheating to keeping pushing a cam up a parallel crack for 30' so it is just above you so you are always on "top rope"? It isn't if it is the only cam you have to protect the entire crack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skykilo Posted June 4, 2007 Share Posted June 4, 2007 You're not on top rope while you move the fawking cam; that's for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-spotter Posted June 4, 2007 Share Posted June 4, 2007 What is the difference between aid and cheating you might ask? Â Tape is aid. Colin is cheating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Off_White Posted June 4, 2007 Share Posted June 4, 2007 I'm pretty sure that cheating is what the other guy does, not me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob Posted June 4, 2007 Share Posted June 4, 2007 I'm still looking to find a suit made entirely out of stealth rubber, for those tricky friction problems and OW elbow jams. Â Suit up, throw myself against the rock like a wet sock, and slurp my way up like an inch worm. Â WTF, now I'm a cheater? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenderfour Posted June 4, 2007 Share Posted June 4, 2007 I'm still looking to find a suit made entirely out of stealth rubber, for those tricky friction problems and OW elbow jams. Â Suit up, throw myself against the rock like a wet sock, and slurp my way up like an inch worm. Â WTF, now I'm a cheater? Â Slab climbing would get really easy. You would look like a seal on shore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-spotter Posted June 4, 2007 Share Posted June 4, 2007 The verdict is that a full suit of stealth rubber = sweaty ballz to the tenth power Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCash Posted June 4, 2007 Share Posted June 4, 2007 that 'no climbing with your knees' rule always kinda pissed me off. Â Knees make manteling much easier. Knees are in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weekend_Climberz Posted June 4, 2007 Share Posted June 4, 2007 The verdict is that a full suit of stealth rubber = sweaty ballz to the tenth power  You say that like you don't like schweaty ballz??  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob Posted June 4, 2007 Share Posted June 4, 2007 The verdict is that a full suit of stealth rubber = sweaty ballz to the tenth power  This problem is corrected with a subtle adjustment of the location of your chalk bag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmallShoes Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 The verdict is that a full suit of stealth rubber = sweaty ballz to the tenth power  This problem is corrected with a subtle adjustment of the location of your chalk bag.  And using  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherri Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 So a while back I was watching dosage IV with some friends and during the part in switzerland, dave graham puts on this knee-bar pad (looked like it had stealth rubber on it) to help hold a sketchy knee bar. right off the bat my friend says that's "fucking cheating" and that if it doesn't hold on his own, he should find another way to do the move. One friend was nice enough to point out that climbing shoes aren't that different and if those rules were to be followed, we should all still be in mountain boots. Later though, Tommy Caldwell is getting ready to do the Changing Corners pitch on the Nose, but instead of moving straight into it, he climbs up a crack on he left a ways, clips a bolt, then downclimbs and does the crux move on TR. Now, that same friend yells "climbing up easier ground to clip that bolt is cheating". So i'm just wondering where folks stand. not necessarily on thses 2 points, but in climbing in general. what constitutes cheating (aside from the obvious things like pulling on gear and claiming a free send)? and yes dru, we all know that cheating is aid and the one cheating is probly the one having the most fun. Â Deception is an element of cheating(by definition, at least). Â So, wouldn't using such techniques become "cheating" only if they claimed to have done it without them? Seems like if they own up to whatever method they needed to resort to in order to send the climb, they're not cheating anyone out of anything--they're acknowledging what worked for them at their particular skill level. Â I reckon it becomes cheating when it is represented as something it is not and therein takes something away from the person who sent it cleanly. Â Those particular folks were doing their thing in plain view of the climbing world, on video; that doesn't seem deceptive to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 Anyway, why do they call it stealth rubber? Is that so the mountain won't hear you sneaking up on it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogerJ Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 I heard the next edition of "Freedom of the Hills" will have a chapter on cheating. That should really clarify things. Â -r Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherri Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 Anyway, why do they call it stealth rubber? Is that so the mountain won't hear you sneaking up on it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashw_justin Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 When you think about it, pro climbers' accomplishments are like baseball cards. They aren't actually worth anything (except maybe to the climber), but they sell for millions as long as the consumers are willing to believe otherwise. Â Honestly, why should we care about whether others are cheating? At best they're just having a good time; at worst, they're just cheating themselves to entertain you (breadwinning). That is, as long as the cheating being done leaves no physical trace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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