22 Killed in Virginia Tech Shooting

[tvashtarkatena]

Also needed: the prevalence of gun ownership in Idaho (not just, hey, everybody seems to have a gun rack) verses other states, correlated (as compared to the other states) with violent crime rates. In addition, any statistical impact of statewide gun policies on the statistics.

 

Pistols should also be broken out...they kill the lions share of victims.

 

Finally, does lower population density make for lower per capita crime rates due to less human interaction in general?

Edited April 16, 2007 by tvashtarkatena

[drater]

And in 2003 Idaho ranked #6 for suicide.

 

In 2003 (the most recent year available), Idaho had the 6th highest suicide rate in the nation; 51% higher than the national average.

Suicide is the 2nd leading cause of death for adolescents and young adults in Idaho.

In 2004, 239 Idahoans completed suicide.

63% of Idaho suicides involve a firearm; the national average is 54%.

http://www.spanidaho.org/facts.php

 

 

pfft....we just cover our murders up better than you.

[foraker]

 

[drater]

Also needed: the prevalence of gun ownership in Idaho (not just, hey, everybody seems to have a gun rack) verses other states, correlated (as compared to the other states) with violent crime rates. In addition, any statistical impact of statewide gun policies on the statistics.

 

Pistols should also be broken out...they kill the lions share of victims.

 

Finally, does lower population density make for lower per capita crime rates due to less human interaction in general?

 

d00d, I was just trolling, I don't have time to look up that shit.

 

We had our first murder in 10 years last year, pretty good for a town of 10k people. Of course it was Meth related so those crime stats should rise.

 

And I'll maintain that the presense of so many guns leads people to settle their differences in other manners. We have a shitload of fistfights and bar brawls. But no shootings. And no drive-by's.

 

The rape stats are disturbing tho, seems to be the preferred sport of rednecks. Well, that and domestic abuse.

 

I count the suicide stat as a positive, too many f'n people up here anyway.

[drater]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/health/interactives/guns/ownership.html

 

[RuMR]

they only have that high of ownership to keep up with the montanans...who will always whip their asses anyway...

 

:pfft:

[max]

3 pages. I feel like a proud father!

[ivan]

3 pages. I feel like a proud father!

yeah, some asshole kills a couple dozen people and you get all the credit

[Dechristo]

it's up to 31 or 32 killed today at VA Tech

[drater]

montanans...who will always whip their asses anyway...

 

Only when we dress up like sheep for halloween.

[empire]

The average man or woman in America is smart enough to realize that good neighbors, dogs, and good locks, and good street sense are much more effective for 'personal security' than guns.

 

Where was "effective personal security" while a homocidal maniac was allowed to run around campus for 3 HOURS, while our dear naive children wandered around, having been sheltered since birth from all violent realities--taught through Hollywood depravity that violence is little more than entertainment?

 

The NY Times reports:

 

"...she walked toward her class, preoccupied with an upcoming exam and listening to music on her IPOD. On the way, she said, she heard some loud cracks, and only later concluded they had been gunshots from the second round of shootings. But even at that point, many students were walking around the campus with little if any sense of alarm."

[kevbone]

3 pages. I feel like a proud father!

 

3 pages.....nice. I am the father of 18

[Dechristo]

Making guns illegal was my idea and it will not work.

 

I do agree...there has to be another way. What....I have no idea.

 

 

Studies also show that the vast majority of guns involved in violent crimes originate from federally licensed dealers that sell without a store front or proper record keeping. Shut these bastards down, require a valid storefront and proper record keeping for licensed dealers, plus a backround check and waiting period for purchasers (already in place in many states) and you've addressed a significant chunk of the ease of availability problem.

 

This shouldn't impinge most lawful gun enthusiasts too terribly much.

 

I don't believe this would help as there is a huge number of sales between private parties.

To have an effect, private gun sales would need to be outlawed...and that would be difficult to achieve.

[Choada_Boy]

Calculus saves lives!!!

 

Meanwhile....

[tvashtarkatena]

Making guns illegal was my idea and it will not work.

 

I do agree...there has to be another way. What....I have no idea.

 

 

Studies also show that the vast majority of guns involved in violent crimes originate from federally licensed dealers that sell without a store front or proper record keeping. Shut these bastards down, require a valid storefront and proper record keeping for licensed dealers, plus a backround check and waiting period for purchasers (already in place in many states) and you've addressed a significant chunk of the ease of availability problem.

 

This shouldn't impinge most lawful gun enthusiasts too terribly much.

 

I don't believe this would help as there is a huge number of sales between private parties.

To have an effect, private gun sales would need to be outlawed...and that would be difficult to achieve.

 

...and most of those privately sold guns that wind up in the evidence room originate from these few rogue federally licensed dealers. People don't manufacture guns in their basement. Established companies do, and those companies sell to licensed dealers. It's a classic 80/20 problem. Cut out those few dirtbag dealers selling to everybody and anybody and you've removed a major source of the problem.

 

Primarily, it's an enforcement problem. Politically, pro gun politicians don't want to insult their pro-gun base and the well funded and organized NRA. This is the dirty little secret of the gun debate, and one for which neither the NRA nor their supporters have an cogent explanation.

Edited April 16, 2007 by tvashtarkatena

[tvashtarkatena]

The average man or woman in America is smart enough to realize that good neighbors, dogs, and good locks, and good street sense are much more effective for 'personal security' than guns.

 

Where was "effective personal security" while a homocidal maniac was allowed to run around campus for 3 HOURS, while our dear naive children wandered around, having been sheltered since birth from all violent realities--taught through Hollywood depravity that violence is little more than entertainment?

 

Don't be an idiot. No policy or legislation is going to prevent craziness. Furthermore, much of the populace is going to remain averse to guns, so most of the public will continue NOT to carry them. That said, life threatening deterrence doesn't work that well on a suicide prone maniac, anyway. And finally, a whole lot of random gunfire from multiple panicked, inexperienced people really would have calmed the situation down, I'm sure.

 

What can be prevented, however, is easy availability of semi automatic weapons that carry way, way more ammunition than one needs for any sport to anyone and everyone with a credit card. People will still go crazy, but perhaps they won't go crazy with one of these weapons in their hands.

Edited April 16, 2007 by tvashtarkatena

[AlpineK]

they only have that high of ownership to keep up with the montanans...who will always whip their asses anyway...

 

:pfft:

 

It looks like Montana is falling behind the high standards of Wyoming.

[Dechristo]

Making guns illegal was my idea and it will not work.

 

I do agree...there has to be another way. What....I have no idea.

 

 

Studies also show that the vast majority of guns involved in violent crimes originate from federally licensed dealers that sell without a store front or proper record keeping. Shut these bastards down, require a valid storefront and proper record keeping for licensed dealers, plus a backround check and waiting period for purchasers (already in place in many states) and you've addressed a significant chunk of the ease of availability problem.

 

This shouldn't impinge most lawful gun enthusiasts too terribly much.

 

I don't believe this would help as there is a huge number of sales between private parties.

To have an effect, private gun sales would need to be outlawed...and that would be difficult to achieve.

 

...and most of those privately sold guns that wind up in the evidence room originate from these few rogue federally licensed dealers. People don't manufacture guns in their basement. Established companies do, and those companies sell to licensed dealers. It's a classic 80/20 problem. Cut out those few dirtbag dealers selling to everybody and anybody and you've removed a major source of the problem.

 

Primarily, it's an enforcement problem. Politically, pro gun politicians don't want to insult their pro-gun base and the well funded and organized NRA. This is the dirty little secret of the gun debate, and one for which neither the NRA nor their supporters have an cogent explanation.

 

Apparently, you are unaware of the huge activity in private sales of guns that originated from "storefront" gun shops.

[empire]

Don't be an idiot. No policy or legislation is going to prevent craziness.

 

Well now you decide to come around. I'm glad you agree with me on this and will desist from your vilification of inanimate objects.

 

I on the other hand will reserve judgment until at which point they decide to let us in the details of this incident, which may or may not include warning signs exhibited by the perpetrator that our free-thinking, everybody's okay, anti-security society is generally apt to ignore, until it's too late.

[tvashtarkatena]

d00d, I was just trolling, I don't have time to look up that shit.

 

Me too.

 

 

And I'll maintain that the presense of so many guns leads people to settle their differences in other manners. We have a shitload of fistfights and bar brawls. But no shootings. And no drive-by's.

 

The rape stats are disturbing tho, seems to be the preferred sport of rednecks. Well, that and domestic abuse.

 

I count the suicide stat as a positive, too many f'n people up here anyway.

 

So, there must be zero drive by shootings in most 'hoods, right? Lots n lots a guns there.

 

As for your other statistics, maybe "If you can't fuck her, shoot her" should replace "Famous Potatoes" on the license plate?

 

It's a good thing most Idahoans have more interest in pool cue diplomacy and workin on their pickemuptrucks than in climbing. I usually have the Sawtooths to myself. Redneck state + beautiful mountains = awesome place for visiting Washingtonians.

[tvashtarkatena]

Making guns illegal was my idea and it will not work.

 

I do agree...there has to be another way. What....I have no idea.

 

 

Studies also show that the vast majority of guns involved in violent crimes originate from federally licensed dealers that sell without a store front or proper record keeping. Shut these bastards down, require a valid storefront and proper record keeping for licensed dealers, plus a backround check and waiting period for purchasers (already in place in many states) and you've addressed a significant chunk of the ease of availability problem.

 

This shouldn't impinge most lawful gun enthusiasts too terribly much.

 

I don't believe this would help as there is a huge number of sales between private parties.

To have an effect, private gun sales would need to be outlawed...and that would be difficult to achieve.

 

...and most of those privately sold guns that wind up in the evidence room originate from these few rogue federally licensed dealers. People don't manufacture guns in their basement. Established companies do, and those companies sell to licensed dealers. It's a classic 80/20 problem. Cut out those few dirtbag dealers selling to everybody and anybody and you've removed a major source of the problem.

 

Primarily, it's an enforcement problem. Politically, pro gun politicians don't want to insult their pro-gun base and the well funded and organized NRA. This is the dirty little secret of the gun debate, and one for which neither the NRA nor their supporters have an cogent explanation.

 

Apparently, you are unaware of the huge activity in private sales of guns that originated from "storefront" gun shops.

 

Without proper backround checks or record keeping, usually. Thanks for bolstering my argument. Again, it's an enforcement problem.

[tvashtarkatena]

 

I on the other hand will reserve judgment until at which point they decide to let us in the details of this incident, which may or may not include warning signs exhibited by the perpetrator that our free-thinking, everybody's okay, anti-security society is generally apt to ignore, until it's too late.

 

So you'd prefer a non-free thinking, other-people-are-fucked, security-obsessed society?

 

Uhm, last time I checked we were spending half a trillion a year on national security and WAY more per capita on law enforcement and prisons than any other nation on earth. But we're anti-security. Riiiiiiiiigght.

Edited April 16, 2007 by tvashtarkatena

[motomagik]

 

Don't be an idiot. No policy or legislation is going to prevent craziness.

What can be prevented, however, is easy availability of semi automatic weapons that carry way, way more ammunition than one needs for any sport to anyone and everyone with a credit card. People will still go crazy, but perhaps they won't go crazy with one of these weapons in their hands.

 

Exactly. There is simply NO need for the general public to have access to these weapons. People want to go out and kill deer and shoot birds, whatever. You don't need automatic weapons for it. BTW, death toll has risen to 33. Hurray for guns.

[wfinley]

BTW -- Here's a good blog on the events: http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/04/16/shooting-at-virginia-tech/

[drater]

So, there must be zero drive by shootings in most 'hoods, right? Lots n lots a guns there.

 

It must then be a question of moral fiber and upraising.

 

As for your other statistics, maybe "If you can't fuck her, shoot her" should replace "Famous Potatoes" on the license plate?

Anything would be better than Famous Pototoes, IMHO.

 

It's a good thing most Idahoans have more interest in pool cue diplomacy and workin on their pickemuptrucks than in climbing. I usually have the Sawtooths to myself. Redneck state + beautiful mountains = awesome place for visiting Washingtonians.

 

The selkirks would give you the same experience. Well, no. The sawtooths are way better climbing. But the Selkirks are in my back yard and empty 99.9% of the time.