JosephH Posted April 14, 2007 Share Posted April 14, 2007 And more likely to follow that one in the years to come at the rate installations are going in around the U.S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted April 14, 2007 Author Share Posted April 14, 2007 (edited) Off, no problem on that front. I've read about Jeff's motivation relative to their creation - I simply disagree with him and others doing so and have no problem saying it to theirs or anyone else's face. That the via ferrata drive in the U.S. is taking place on private land makes perfect sense as will the drive to establish via ferratas in the Valley, Smith, Eldo, Devils Tower and other areas on public land. That drive will arrive in the exact same logic Kevin is using for IB - that to not allow via ferratas on [public] crags is an act of denying people their right [and entitlement] to climb. Kevin wants to climb IB on bolts - someone else is going to want to climb the Nose on a cable. He has no right to dictate how they climb and the question they'll pose is: exactly how does a via ferrata harm anyone? There is no difference whatsoever. And if you think one doesn't lead to the other; or that via ferratas aren't the logical, if not inevitable, extension of gyms and [commercialized] sport climbing, then you're all more naive and tripping harder than I thought. When that day comes, just remember it's a bigger world than your ancient, backwards, and elitist sport climbing era - if you don't want to step on that rung or clip that cable then don't. And don't bitch about imaginary problems of via ferrata installations "harming" the rock because they don't and the rest of your complaints will just be "ideas" without substance. um....i dont know...JH...you are missing the point. If someone put cables up the nose "that would be an atrocity". IB was done with the best intentions. And quite frankly.....they got to it first Edited April 14, 2007 by kevbone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephH Posted April 14, 2007 Share Posted April 14, 2007 Kevin, no, you are missing the point and fairly dramatically at that. Exactly how would a cable up the Nose be 'an atrocity'? Would it be just the idea of it? That it would offend your ethics? Who would it harm? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Choada_Boy Posted April 14, 2007 Share Posted April 14, 2007 Setting a time line for chopping IB would only embolden our enemies in the War on Terror. On a lighter note: Seems like there is repeated discussion around some of Leland Windham's routes. Bolted cracks on Condorphamine Addiction and the "Slug Route" on SEWS come to mind. Discuss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephH Posted April 14, 2007 Share Posted April 14, 2007 IB was done with the best intentions. And quite frankly.....they got to it first That's why we call it perspective. IB was done with the worst of intentions from mine. That they got there first is irrelavent - they had no more right to bolt it than anyone else does to remove it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted April 14, 2007 Author Share Posted April 14, 2007 Exactly how would a cable up the Nose be 'an atrocity'? Would it be just the idea of it? That it would offend your ethics? Who would it harm? I would see if you added a cable to the nose then it would be the same as adding a bolt to an exsisting route without asking permision from the FA. That is bad in my mind. Totally different from IB. Thanks for all the good conversation JH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephH Posted April 14, 2007 Share Posted April 14, 2007 It's not about bolts and existing routes. It's about entitlement, access, and the 'right' to not be told what or how to climb. And what if they don't give a rat's ass about your ridiculous ancient ethics? You want to climb it with ropes and bolts, the next guy wants to climb it with rungs and cables. They can simply run it parallel to the Nose four feet to the side all the way. Again, what would be the harm? Later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drater Posted April 14, 2007 Share Posted April 14, 2007 Have to wonder how many of you would be climbers tomorrow if bolts evaporated tonight. I often wonder the same thing about ropes. Well, not often, but right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted April 14, 2007 Author Share Posted April 14, 2007 Blowboarder made a funny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Off_White Posted April 14, 2007 Share Posted April 14, 2007 I don't think he was joking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drater Posted April 14, 2007 Share Posted April 14, 2007 (edited) I wasn't, but I have been getting the urge to do some chuffing lately, must be something to do with the multiple 500'+ limestone walls discovered last month. Wonder if any of my gear is still good...probably a question for SuperTaco... Which reminds me, how f'n tall is this Infinite Choss pile? 20 pitches? 25? Full rope length pitches or half rope? Cuz yeah, "longest sport climb in America" and all that... Edited April 14, 2007 by Blowboarder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Off_White Posted April 14, 2007 Share Posted April 14, 2007 Joseph, my point was that it's not Leland Windham (who is not "merely" a sport climber btw) who is advocating for Via Ferrata. I can understand having issues with some of his routes, but I don't see him as point man for those type of installations, and IB is not some kind of gateway drug. I do think you're wrong about the direction that Via Ferrata development comes from. It may come from gym owners, business folks in search of new revenue streams in a competitive market, but not gym climbers. I can easily see the direct connection between gyms and obsessively safe sport climbs, but Via Ferrata is a very different thing. Gym climbs are still about athletic endeavors, moving up through the grades, and difficulty is an integral part. They're all about the numbers and grades. There may be a philosophical connection between gym climbing and via ferrat on the basis of perceived safety, but that's no more direct than the idea that the Pope and Kim Jong Il are the same by virtue of the concept of strong central individual leadership. The people I see in gyms are not looking for the easiest way to the top. Of course, if I'm wrong, you're more than welcome to tell me "I told you so" when we're in the old folks home together, and I'll owe you a shot of Geritol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken4ord Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 Isnt it run out already? Hell no!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken4ord Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 He ain't going to be climbing it now. Nor is anyone else. Yeah those first five slab pitches of 5.4 climbing with cracks nearby would be impossible for mere mortals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drater Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 Isnt it run out already? Hell no!!! Kevy thinks 10' above a bolt on a slab is runout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted April 16, 2007 Author Share Posted April 16, 2007 Isnt it run out already? Hell no!!! Kevy thinks 10' above a bolt on a slab is runout. Thanks for telling me what I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted April 16, 2007 Author Share Posted April 16, 2007 Isnt it run out already? Hell no!!! Kevy thinks 10' above a bolt on a slab is runout. So exactly when does it become runout? Are there a specific number of feet? Or are you just talking out your ass like you usually do? If you don’t think the possibility of falling 20 feet onto a slab is runout, then you have an ego problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drater Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 I'm gonna go out on a limb and venture a guess you learned to climb in a gym. Suicide is runout slab climbing. Typical routes have 4-5 bolts per 100', the really gnarly routes have 1 or 2. Falling off of a slab and falling onto a slab are totally different things. To fall onto a slab, the route would have to get steeper above the slab. Apples and Oranges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted April 16, 2007 Author Share Posted April 16, 2007 I'm gonna go out on a limb and venture a guess you learned to climb in a gym. Nope Suicide is runout slab climbing. Typical routes have 4-5 bolts per 100', the really gnarly routes have 1 or 2. Never climbed at Suicide…..climbed a bunch at Jtree. Sounds like its got Suicide beat. I climbed a slab route there…..3 bolts on a 160 foot route. Now that is run out. But runout is in the eyes of the beholder. I personally don’t like to be runout. Being scared is not why I climb. Falling off of a slab and falling onto a slab are totally different things. I agree….to fall off a slab you would need an overhang beneath it to FALL OFF THE SLAB. You are an idiot. So we should agree you fall DOWN the slab. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drater Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 I'm gonna go out on a limb and venture a guess you learned to climb in a gym. Nope Suicide is runout slab climbing. Typical routes have 4-5 bolts per 100', the really gnarly routes have 1 or 2. Never climbed at Suicide…..climbed a bunch at Jtree. Sounds like its got Suicide beat. I climbed a slab route there…..3 bolts on a 160 foot route. Now that is run out. But runout is in the eyes of the beholder. I personally don’t like to be runout. Being scared is not why I climb. Falling off of a slab and falling onto a slab are totally different things. I agree….to fall off a slab you would need an overhang beneath it to FALL OFF THE SLAB. You are an idiot. So we should agree you fall DOWN the slab. Slab falls are weaksauce anyway...just a big scary sliding scrape, generally no airtime unless their almost vert and you push off (dumb idea). Jtree has plenty of proud runout slabs, the rock at Suicide is like 8 gajillion times better and smoother so when you're palming and highstepping on nothing, it really feels like nothing. I couldn't climb anything harder than 10a there if it didn't have a crack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted April 23, 2007 Author Share Posted April 23, 2007 So just so we are clear on this topic. For those who are against this route…..just remember….. Buddha teaches us “its not what happens to you that make a difference……its how you reach to it”. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dechristo Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 that was Miles Davis, not Buddha, you rube Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 (edited) Dude, where's the TR? Edited April 23, 2007 by robmcdan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted April 23, 2007 Author Share Posted April 23, 2007 that was Miles Davis, not Buddha, you rube What are you talking about....Buddha told this to me in a dream. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted June 6, 2007 Author Share Posted June 6, 2007 Bump....might as well with all the other IB thread going....tis the season. Cant wait to climb it in late summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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