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kevbone

Infinite Bliss

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Look if you don't like climbing via ferratas, don't climb them. Exactly what damage would a via ferrata cause

 

What is a ferrata?

 

If you're assertion is that bolts and bolting have no impact physically, qualitatively, or on access then you are operating from either from willful or unfortunate blindness or a position so ethically bankrupt it isn't worth discussing further.

 

Nice….you still have yet to answer the question. How does this route affect you? I know it affects you personally as an attack on your ethics. Let’s assume you had never heard of it. Would it still affect you?

 

That position would also imply you simply want to emulate risk-free gym climbing outside wherever you please.

 

How do you know what I want? Climbing is not risk free. Your idea of risk and mine might be different. But when you come at me with this “your way or no way” attitude, I find it selfish.

 

 

Your position is no different than a cigar smoker who can't imagine everyone doesn't love the smell of his cigar or a dog owner who can't fathom why anyone would have a problem with his dog shitting in their yard.

 

 

This statement is untrue and you know it. If someone was smoking a cigar (which I love) and I did not like it I would leave the area. BUT I WOULD NEVER TAKE THE JH OR RAINDAWG APPROACH AND MAKE SURE NO ONE EVER SMOKES A CIGAR AGAIN.

 

Edited by kevbone

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This statement is untrue and you know it. If someone was smoking a cigar (which I love) and I did not like it I would leave the area. BUT I WOULD NEVER TAKE THE JH OR RAINDAWG APPROACH AND MAKE SURE NO ONE EVER SMOKES A CIGAR AGAIN.

 

Hey, you must be one of those "courteous smokers"! As soon as someone complains that your smoke is tearing their lungs out, you're happy to leave the area. What a nice guy! :rolleyes:

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Bill, sounds like the hangers were pulled which I would consider a bit unfortunate. I'd say either remove the bolt and hanger or leave both. I very much dislike the whole idea of simply leaving studs almost as much as I do putting the route up in the first place.

 

We just pulled the hangers off the upper pitches because we didn't have time to yank ALL those bolts out. Its a lot of fucking work.

 

But we've got plans to go back and take the studs out too. The first few pitches are EASILY climbed on gear, so it won't be a problem to go back and get 'em.

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And don't forget to yank the belay bolts on Diedre. There's a huge crack for plenty of gear.

 

That'll show those whimpy Canuks.

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Are you going to trash and burn the snowcats in the Mt Hood wilderness area next?

 

Just to clarify: no one would complain if a hand drill was used to replace the bolts?

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And don't forget to yank the belay bolts on Diedre. There's a huge crack for plenty of gear.

 

That'll show those whimpy Canuks.

 

"Belay bolts were placed in the stations of Diedre and chopped by a subsequent party. I wonder if that party used pitons?" - Jim Sinclair, 1973 CAJ.

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And don't forget to yank the belay bolts on Diedre. There's a huge crack for plenty of gear.

 

I agree with that. Yank those frickin anchor out.

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Your position is no different than a cigar smoker who can't imagine everyone doesn't love the smell of his cigar or a dog owner who can't fathom why anyone would have a problem with his dog shitting in their yard.

 

 

This statement is untrue and you know it. If someone was smoking a cigar (which I love) and I did not like it I would leave the area. BUT I WOULD NEVER TAKE THE JH OR RAINDAWG APPROACH AND MAKE SURE NO ONE EVER SMOKES A CIGAR AGAIN.

 

That statement is an exact and entirely appropriate analogy. No one is suggesting you don't climb bolted routes. I and others are suggesting the bolted route in question shouldn't exist where it is in the same way cigar smoke and dog shit don't belong everywhere. The analogous claim you are making would be saying that the fact you can't smoke your cigar in a busy restaurant or a daycare center is depriving you of the right to smoke cigars. Or to suggest another analogy, recommending you piss in a restroom urinal as opposed to the gutter in front of the Heathman Hotel is in no way infringing on your right to take a piss.

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Your position is no different than a cigar smoker who can't imagine everyone doesn't love the smell of his cigar or a dog owner who can't fathom why anyone would have a problem with his dog shitting in their yard.

 

 

This statement is untrue and you know it. If someone was smoking a cigar (which I love) and I did not like it I would leave the area. BUT I WOULD NEVER TAKE THE JH OR RAINDAWG APPROACH AND MAKE SURE NO ONE EVER SMOKES A CIGAR AGAIN.

 

That statement is an exact and entirely appropriate analogy. No one is suggesting you don't climb bolted routes. I and others are suggesting the bolted route in question shouldn't exist where it is in the same way cigar smoke and dog shit don't belong everywhere. The analogous claim you are making would be saying that the fact you can't smoke your cigar in a busy restaurant or a daycare center is depriving you of the right to smoke cigars. Or to suggest another analogy, recommending you piss in a restroom urinal as opposed to the gutter in front of the Heathman Hotel is in no way infringing on your right to take a piss.

 

WTF are you talking about. I have no idea how you arrived at that conclusion. I would never smoke my cigar around anyone who did not like it. Or at least I would walk away from the group AKA smith camping. Or if I am at my house on my deck (which you have sat on) I would tell the offended to fuck off.

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Read it again. You keep insinuating that my position on IB can somehow be characterized as me telling you what you can climb.

 

I'm saying to you that is no different than claiming I'm depriving you of the right to smoke when my position is you shouldn't smoke in public places.

 

I'm simply saying if "smoking" to you means smoking in a daycare center than, yep - I'm guilty of saying you shouldn't smoke - that's because there are places where smoking is simply inappropriate - just as there are places where bolted routes are inappropriate. That in no way is a matter of infringing on your right to climb.

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JH. smoking in a daycare physically harms another person. Bolts on a rock face does not harm another person. two totally different things. The bolts up there did nothing to harm anyone. They only harmed your way of thinking. Nothing else.

 

 

And by you wanting to chop it, tells me you dont want me climbing the route.

Edited by kevbone

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No, I'm saying it's inappropriate for a bolted route to exist there at all - it has nothing whatsoever to do with you. It is in no way different than saying I find it wholly inappropriate to smoke in daycare centers.

 

With regards to "harm" - loop to here:

 

If you're assertion is that bolts and bolting have no impact physically, qualitatively, or on access then you are operating from either from willful or unfortunate blindness or a position so ethically bankrupt it isn't worth discussing further. That position would also imply you simply want to emulate risk-free gym climbing outside wherever you please.

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No, I'm saying it's inappropriate for a bolted route to exist there at all - it has nothing whatsoever to do with you. It is in no way different than saying I find it wholly inappropriate to smoke in daycare centers.

 

With regards to "harm" - loop to here:

 

If you're assertion is that bolts and bolting have no impact physically, qualitatively, or on access then you are operating from either from willful or unfortunate blindness or a position so ethically bankrupt it isn't worth discussing further. That position would also imply you simply want to emulate risk-free gym climbing outside wherever you please.

 

Are you telling me the "harm" is an idea?

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Well, say we kill all the world's gorillas or all the Redwoods - is that 'harming' anyone or is it just an idea? If we put a via ferrata up on the outer left side of Blownout is that 'harming' anyone or is it just an idea? If we tripled up the bolts on YW would that be 'harming' anyone or just an idea?

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Hi! HI2U!!!

 

Need a partner for bolting this weekend? Send PM ASAP

 

ROFL LOLZER OMG LMAO

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And Joseph is blind to the atrocity that is Beacon.

 

Because it is his atrocity.

 

Wank, wank, wank.

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Phil, Wank is about right, do you have anything of substance to add to a discussion you actually know something about? Or is it all just wanking? From looking back through your posts it looks like a weak wank-to-substance ratio...

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Well, say we kill all the world's gorillas or all the Redwoods - is that 'harming' anyone or is it just an idea? If we put a via ferrata up on the outer left side of Blownout is that 'harming' anyone or is it just an idea? If we tripled up the bolts on YW would that be 'harming' anyone or just an idea?

 

Yes killing the gorillas or all the redwoods would be harmful......is bolting this face killing something tangible?

 

I asked you this early....maybe you missed it. What is a ferrata?

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