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manimal

Stealing fixed draws

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Just my way of looking at it and I can see valid points both ways (garbage, tradition, and so on) but...If it's a new project you're putting up, leave the draws if you want but consider that just because someone climbs doesn't mean they're a part of the climbing community - don't be too surprised if the draws aren't there later. If it's an established route, take em down so others can climb it without having to remove them first or trust that they're in ok codition. Leaving your draws hanging on an established route is no different that leaving a TR hanging at a busy crag while you eat lunch. Don't assume that just because you can't get it done, noone else would want to give it a try.

 

If you want to climb a route with draws hanging, remove them and leave em laying as your own morality dictates then screw anyone who gets pissed about it.

 

If you take the draws though....you deserve whatever bad Karma you get.

 

As I said, just my own set of operaing instructions. Different instructions may yield the same results in the end :)

 

As for the original post...that blows. Hope you find your draws.

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If you take them down, atleast put them back when your done. And it is only 32, its not like it is a world destination. the draws don't cause that much of a problem. What about all those rap slings and fixed nuts and pitons all you trad guys leave on climbs? how is that any different the draws? It still is nylon and bright.

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What about all those rap slings and fixed nuts and pitons all you trad guys leave on climbs? how is that any different the draws?

 

Most of the time when you run across a "fixed nut" it is because they could not remove it. Opposed to just being lazy.

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I have seen fixed pins. It's always been obvious when that was the plan. I agree with Kev that fixed stoppers are rare and it's also obvious that somebody bailed and couldn't figure another way out.

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So where has this thread gotten us? Its lame the thief’s disguised as climbers....

 

A few decades ago there was a concept of the "brotherhood of the rope". Back then, most climbers in a given region knew all the other ones or about them. And then, beginning about 20 years ago, there was a big explosion in the number of people participating in "climbing" with the widespread embracing of sport-climbing with its appealing dumb-downed learning curve and minimal financial investment. And now, "climbers" are being churned out in even great numbers via the gym. (And you have to be really careful who you choose as a partner these days because some of these guys KNOW NOTHING!) My opinion: climbers are not particularly special anymore...many of the new ones have no concept of the depth of ethics or environmental responsibility. I used to think that if gear was stolen, it would never be a climber....now, my assumption is quite the opposite...who else would want that crap, who else is going to litter the crags with their junk? "Oh...not a climber!" :rolleyes: Please!

 

Are we done yet? Or is there more opinions floating about?

 

Are you getting bored? You can always toss out one-liners in spray. How about this still mostly unaddressed question about this "quickdraw" situation:

 

Why do you think you have "the right" to leave them? Especially on public property?

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you know dwayner, is an afternoon acceptable? A single try? Maybe a yo yo group effort? Maybe a single day? Maybe a weekend?

 

Where do you draw the line on how long is ok?? Not everyone needs to pull their gear between tries to fit YOUR definition of a proper ascent...this can go for gear (i've seen it at indian creek and yosemite) or it can go for a rope, or a set of draws...

 

point is, they were there "temporarirly"...see, that's a funny word...it connotates "not forever"...

 

WHY DO YOU THINK YOU HAVE THE "RIGHT" TO TAKE SOMEONE ELSE'S PROPERTY?

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This is just too much fun to leave alone. I've always wondered how the "old-school" practice of leaving gear on a project would hold up in today's increasingly crowded areas.

 

Consider this scenario: I'm working Chain Reaction cuz it's going to be my first 12c but it's kicking my ass and I don't finish it on the first day. So I lower off the 4th bolt, pull my rope and head out for the night. I don't bother to clean my draws because I'll be back to finish my project after a rest day or two.

Next day, some hot shot sporto shows up after doing laps on Scarface in his florescent lycra tights and wants to prove to his friends that he can onsight that "bitchin line on the cover." But shit, there's already draws on most of the bolts. That doesn't count as an onsight!

 

 

Of course - that's purely hypothetical. I'll never climb Chain Reaction. But still, there are more an more people out there climbing hard routes and there's no guarantee the gear you leave on the route won't be in someone else's way.

 

Don't get me wrong - I don't think it's ever acceptable to steal someone else's shit. But by leaving your draws on the route, seems like your just gambling that nobody else will come along before you return.

 

 

Hate to break it to you...but chain has draws on it .. ooops hope that doesnt affect anybodys onsight

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im not trying to sound like an ass dont get me wrong.

i love sport climbing and trad climbing, but this argument is going no where.

there will still be fixed draws, an lately the trend has ben to quicklink draws to the bolts.

 

why not drop it its just how it is, same as all of you who hate bolts you cant do shit about it so drop it.

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im not trying to sound like an ass dont get me wrong.

i love sport climbing and trad climbing, but this argument is going no where.

there will still be fixed draws, an lately the trend has ben to quicklink draws to the bolts.

 

why not drop it its just how it is, same as all of you who hate bolts you cant do shit about it so drop it.

 

You haven't been around here long have you??

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Nominated for Burn of the Day :tup: :tup:

 

IMG_0795.JPG

 

Look closely, and you will see the “burn of the day”!

 

Or more to the point "back in the day burn".

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You haven't been around here long have you??

 

:tup: Well said.

 

im sorry i didnt relize i had to spray 3080 times before i could voice my opinion.

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im sorry i didnt relize i had to spray 3080 times before i could voice my opinion.

 

it's alright, live and learn.

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Well welcome to the board eggplant! :wave:

 

PS, what were your parents thnking when they named you Eggplant"?? ...nevermind.

 

Take care:

 

Bill

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