pindude Posted March 10, 2007 Share Posted March 10, 2007 Yesterday's NPR's Morning Edition: "Morning Edition, March 8, 2007: Oregon is about to pass legislation requiring climbers to carry electronic-locator devices when scaling Mt. Hood. The legislation is the state's response to recent high-profile cases of climbers getting lost on the mountain." Audio and story here. What a damned shame if the bill does pass. I know this topic has been hit hard here at cc.com in context of this past winter season's two media-frenzied Hood accidents. I searched and couldn't believe this recent bit of news hasn't been discussed in last few days here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivan Posted March 10, 2007 Share Posted March 10, 2007 well, to me, yet another law i won't be observing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fheimerd Posted March 10, 2007 Share Posted March 10, 2007 (edited) should prove interesting to enforce. I can see it now...backcountry police with snowmobiles cruising around mt. hood tickiting climbers without a beacon above 10,000. it's great when the failures of a few must be carried by us all and no I'm not talking about our president this time Edited March 10, 2007 by fheimerd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted March 10, 2007 Share Posted March 10, 2007 The legislation is the state's response to recent high-profile cases of climbers getting lost on the mountain. The media made it high profile. Not the climbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmuja Posted March 10, 2007 Share Posted March 10, 2007 Kevbone, your friend almost got some noobs killed because of his self admittedly poor decision making (see velvet the wonderdog thread and web site). After Decembers fiasco, everyone new that a fuck up on Hood of that type and magnitude would be a media spectacle. Really though it wasn,t that one alone that lead to this stupid bill passing - although it probly didn't help - it was the one in December. Given the easy access to Mt Hood, its altitude and thus the long drawn out rescues that make for nice media drama, it was probably inevitable that something like this would come down. Despite the nice write up about Colin in the P-I, climbers, people who venture into the mountains are still looked at with suspicion and disdain most of the time in the US (veiwed as "risk takers") and they are an easy target for any type of regulations. There will be more regulations in the future (forced on us and created by dorks who do not climb!) and our numbers are probably too small to fight it without a large scale campaign involving businesses like REI etc.. Im just glad that Rainier has been closed down for the most part this winter so they didn't have to go looking for for the screw-ups there. Of coarse, there will be a rescue or 3 on Rainier this year, and you can bet the cameras are already being prepositioned to record the drama. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jens Posted March 10, 2007 Share Posted March 10, 2007 well, to me, yet another law i won't be observing... I would wager to guess that the compliance rate for this stipulation (if it passes) will be around 30%. The only way that the stat would be higher is if the state of Oregon paid lots of people to rent hundreds of beacons 24 hrs. a day for many aspects of the mountain. If John Doe shows up on some side of the mountain, at say 9:45pm and decides he wants to go for a summit romp, the state of Oregon better have a way for him to get one without driving all over. The funny thing is, if this bill passes, it will probably cost the state of Oregon more for enforcement, rentals, and the like then what they'll save by having climbers wear them. They will still have to pay for rescuing climbers, just it will be a little quicker to find out where they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary_Yngve Posted March 10, 2007 Share Posted March 10, 2007 Assuming the bill passes, it would be interesting to look back after 5-10 years and ask if there were any differences in number of rescues, mortality, manhours, "cost," etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafael_H Posted March 11, 2007 Share Posted March 11, 2007 He-he, Jens, you just said it there - patrols, rentals, what f-in not = new positions, new activity (of filling empty with void as they say), more "service to the people". In this case government responded in a timely, proactive and decisive manner, which will surely appear in somebody's reelection campaign junk mail Cost? How can you put cost on people's lives! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Posted March 11, 2007 Share Posted March 11, 2007 I read some transcripts from the hearings on this bill. It really reinforced the position I take that most career politicians are fucking tools. Another example of a law that will be difficut if not impossible to enforce. That being said, there was a rider on this bill that would allow some sort of mutual aid between Washington & Oregon for volunteer SAR workers. Many of us in WA were staged to go on a couple of high profile SAR missions in Oregon in the last year but were not allowed to go because of the lack of a mutual aid agreement. I personally was not aware of the lack of this agreement because a bunch of us were flown down to Bachelor to search for a missing snowboarder a couple of years ago. Seems her dad was a general or something, so the "rules" did not apply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kraken Posted March 11, 2007 Share Posted March 11, 2007 Rainier this year, and you can bet the cameras are already being prepositioned to record the drama. Last season on Rainier was one of the safest on record with no fatalities only two very very minor injuries. Hopefully this upcoming season will follow with the same results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Posted March 11, 2007 Share Posted March 11, 2007 There is a big difference between Mt. Rainier and Mt. Hood. Mt. Rainier is a National Park and I don't believe the Washington Legislature can pass a law mandating beacons on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivan Posted March 11, 2007 Share Posted March 11, 2007 Rainier this year, and you can bet the cameras are already being prepositioned to record the drama. Last season on Rainier was one of the safest on record with no fatalities only two very very minor injuries. Hopefully this upcoming season will follow with the same results. probably helped that the park was completly shut down for 1/4 of the year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike_Gauthier Posted March 11, 2007 Share Posted March 11, 2007 Rainier this year, and you can bet the cameras are already being prepositioned to record the drama. Last season on Rainier was one of the safest on record with no fatalities only two very very minor injuries. Hopefully this upcoming season will follow with the same results. probably helped that the park was completly shut down for 1/4 of the year? Only closed for 2 months in 2006, and the slowest 2 months for climbing at that... So it was a good year. I credited the climbers, weather, rangers, guides (and a bit of luck) with the absence of incidents. Statically speaking, it would be incredible to have 2 years like that in a row. Of course 2007 is getting a bit of help b/c upper mountain access is all but impossible for 4 (possibly more) months... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted March 11, 2007 Share Posted March 11, 2007 Kevbone, your friend almost got some noobs killed because of his self admittedly poor decision making What...you never made a mistake before? I know in the ten years I have been climbing, that I have made a couple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
To_The_Top Posted March 11, 2007 Share Posted March 11, 2007 Kevbone, your friend almost got some noobs killed because of his self admittedly poor decision making What...you never made a mistake before? I know in the ten years I have been climbing, that I have made a couple. They had MLU's from what I recall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmncwrtr Posted March 12, 2007 Share Posted March 12, 2007 There's an op-ed by Jim Whittaker in the NY Times about this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmuja Posted March 12, 2007 Share Posted March 12, 2007 Mandatory read, thnx rmncwrtr. Right on Big Jim! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted March 12, 2007 Share Posted March 12, 2007 (Under Oregon law, climbers can be charged only $500 to cover rescue costs, yet the local sheriff’s office in the December rescue attempt reportedly spent more than $5,000 a day for more than a week.) I did not know that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archenemy Posted March 12, 2007 Share Posted March 12, 2007 Cost? How can you put cost on people's lives! It ain't too tough; and believe it or not, it is an important number to derive for these types of conversations. http://www.casact.org/ (I realize you are saying this tongue-in-cheek, but folks do often believe the standpoint that there is no way to ethically discuss a life's "value") Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weekend_Climberz Posted March 15, 2007 Share Posted March 15, 2007 If they outlaw climbing, only outlaws will climb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvashtarkatena Posted March 15, 2007 Share Posted March 15, 2007 I'd better execute my first naked winter ascent of Hood this week before the law passes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmncwrtr Posted March 16, 2007 Share Posted March 16, 2007 Last night at the Mountain Rescue slide show at TNF, it sounded as if they were proposing different ideas so if the legislature had to regulate something at least they'd be using more current technology. Sorry I can't be more specific, but I wasn't taking notes and am relying on a very tired brain right now. His comment about tagged wolves being tracked by the same 1960s locator beacon technology, though they weren't planning to tag climbers, got a good laugh from the audience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robk Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 Now that another high profile SAR operation has concluded in NC for a missing scout it will be interesting to see if there is a cry to charge for that SAR incident....... Anyone want to make bets? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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