Hotfeet Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 Does anyone have any comments on AAI i would appreciate it. In particuliar the Denali prep and Denali ascent. Someone told me they heard something disturbing. What they heard I do not know. Whether what they heard is true or not I do not know. Thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Phil Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 Someone told me they heard something disturbing. What they heard I do not know. Whether what they heard is true or not I do not know. Oh. My. Gawd!!!?!!!?!!!?!!!?!!!?!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 I don't know if the trips you mentioned answer this question, but which AAI? Are you talking about American Alpine Institute out of Bellingham or Alpine Ascents International out of SEA? As far as rumors go... There's so much crap out there, I wouln't believe it unless you hear it straight from the source. I had this friend whose brother (or was it cousin), told me... you get my drift. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
layton Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 If you knew everything that goes on at every company, business, hospital, etc...you'd never leave your house. How bout you go do it yourself instead of paying someone for it? As for the B'ham AAI, I've worked there and would trust them even if I don't respect them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 I've climbed with two guys that work at the American Alpine Institute (non guided climbing) and they are GREAT guys. Sorry about spreading positive, 1st hand, rumors. Jedi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotfeet Posted February 25, 2007 Author Share Posted February 25, 2007 It was American Apline Institute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotfeet Posted February 25, 2007 Author Share Posted February 25, 2007 Hey layton, Thanks for the comments. You have some good points. And its not me considering the service. Also I've never heard anything other than good things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmuja Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 I heard they feed off the dead carcasses of slaughtered animals and climb mostly at night..scary shit! Its only a rumor though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Climzalot Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 Hotfeet, I tried to send you a few comments via PM but haven't been able to get that to work. I coordinate the Denali expeditions for the American Alpine Institute and would be happy to speak with you about any specific concerns that you and/or your friend may have. Feel free to send me an email at cgentzel@aai.cc. Layton, my feelings are a bit hurt by your post, specifically the part about not trusting "them." Am I among the "them" of whom you speak? If so, where is the love and trust we once shared? Coley Gentzel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tennessee Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 Layton, my feelings are a bit hurt by your post, specifically the part about not trusting "them." Am I among the "them" of whom you speak? If so, where is the love and trust we once shared? You misread Layton's post. He said he WOULD trust the folks at AAI. It's the respect part I'm wondering about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
layton Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 No Coley, I love AND respect you. It's the business side I don't respect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Choada_Boy Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 I hear they leave dead clients in Mirkwood. I've also heard that the guides intentionally throw ice axes at incompetent clients, smoke pot and drink beer with 17 year olds, try and kill people with the Red Van via suffocation, and push clients to heart failure on Mexican volcanoes. Perhaps, most sickening of all, the owner, Barry Goldstien, is rumored to have a well-stocked wine cellar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olyclimber Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 that rumor could only be confirmed via a tasting. i suggest we put together a team immediately and investigate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyHarry Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 I hear AAI does work but you have to have to admit you have a problem and regularly attend all the meetings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoabC4freak Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 Hotfeet, I took two courses with AAI this past summer. I took their Alpine Mountaineering and Leadership Part 1&2. I would say in the least these courses were amazing, I learned a lot about climbing. All of the guides I had were professionals to the max. But I don't think I would go to Denali with AAI. All of the guides I had, told me to sign up with other companies that pay their guides appropriate wages. That is the only negative about the courses was how much all the guides complained about their wages. It seemed to be a pretty hot topic, and when we would sit around camp and other guides from courses would come over, they would all joke around about their pay and they made fun of the boss a lot. I am going to Denali with Alpine Ascents. I made this decision after I found out that AAI guides encouraged their clients to dump food and gear into crevass's on the mountains and their low success rate on Denali. I suggest taking their intro to mountaineering courses, but would stay away from Denali. Go with a company that practices Leave No Trace and actually sticks to it. You can call up the Park Service and they will tell you just about any information you would want from Denali guide companies. I hope this helps, and hopefully see ya up there this spring! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryland_moore Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 10 years ago, when I was right out of college and just starting out in mountaineering, I did their Ecuador volcanoes trip with Eli Helsmuth. They were awesome folks and I had a blast. I am still climbing and Eli and co. got me wanting more. Eli has since left for CO. Mountain School, but if all guides are on his level, then your friends would have a blast. But if your friends have the glacier skills to climb Rainier alone and basic snow camping skills, then they should do it themselves... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason_Martin Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 Hotfeet, Go with a company that practices Leave No Trace and actually sticks to it. All AAI guides practice leave no trace techniques. This is very important to us. It is at the very core of what we teach. I suspect that anything this individual heard about a lack of leave no trace ethics was in jest. If anybody broke this set of rules, I doubt they would be brazen enough to brag about it to other guides. And indeed, I would be amazed if other guides didn't knock the individual for pulling something that puts our permit and our very livlihood in jeporady. If anyone wants to email me or discuss AAI in any way you're welcome to PM me. I'll send you my phone number and we can talk. I will openly and honestly tell you whatever you'd like to know from a senior guide's perspective. I won't B.S. you. I'm very proud to work for AAI. It's a good company filled with good people who honestly want to educate people on how to be climbers. We want people to learn how to be self-sufficient so that they can go out and do their own thing safely and effectively... Jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alasdair Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 I found out that AAI guides encouraged their clients to dump food and gear into crevass's on the mountains and their low success rate on Denali. I suggest taking their intro to mountaineering courses, but would stay away from Denali. Go with a company that practices Leave No Trace and actually sticks to it. I am not sure where you heard this from, but cant see any way short of a life threatening emergency where this type of thing would have happened with any guide I have worked with at AAI. Not only are AAI guides trained in leave no trace principles, but they truly believe in it, and use it even on personal trips. Guides who work on Denali understand the climbers impacts on the mountain, and simply put, would not do this type of thing. In addition this type of activity is a very good way to loose a guiding permit. No guide who ever wants to guide again is going to risk their career doing this. I hate to call bullshit, but on this one I have to. I just dont believe this type of thing happened, with AAI or for that matter any other guide service. It is just not worth saving a few pounds if you might loose your permit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Climzalot Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 (edited) I don’t feel that this venue is the appropriate place to rebut all of these comments, but I do feel as though a bit of clarification is needed so that uninformed folks aren’t given the wrong idea about a great company and a fantastic group of folks. AAI guides encouraged their clients to dump food and gear into crevasse's on the mountains... Go with a company that practices Leave No Trace and actually sticks to it... The Alpine Institute was instrumental in helping Leave No Trace to achieve 501c3 status and come to fruition as a non-profit entity. Since our early efforts to help LNT efforts succeed and become the standard for guide services and outdoor organizations, AAI has taken more steps and dedicated more time, efforts, and funds to help their staff become LNT Trainers and Master Educators than any other guides service. LNT materials are widely distributed to all members of AAI trips at a significant cost to the company. Far more important than the company's past efforts are the mentalities of the staff and our current efforts. As has been mentioned, I firmly believe our staff includes some of the most conscientious and aware outdoors users in the industry. For more on AAI’s efforts to save and preserve natural resources go here: http://aai.cc/UIAAenvironment.asp http://aai.cc/greenfuture.asp http://aai.cc/about.asp Our Director, despite certain shortcomings just like the rest of us, has made efforts and worked to enact policies that have helped the climbing community at large in ways that I am sure only a handful of folks are even aware of. With specific regard to Denali, AAI was the first guide service on Denali to test and fully implement the Clean Mountain Can on their guided trips. Every scrap of human waste and trash is removed from the mountain or dealt with in Park approved manners (pit toilets on the route). AAI’s efforts here have been widely recognized by the Park and have even been used to share current policies for waste removal and LNT on the mountain. The Park has awarded Denali Pro awards to many of our guides for their additional efforts in the areas of safety and conservation. For more on that you can read these: http://www.nps.gov/archive/dena/home/mountaineering/cmc.htm http://www.nps.gov/dena/planyourvisit/upload/2001_Mtnrg_Summary.pdf The one worthy piece of advice that Moabc4 did give was to call the Park Service and ask about guide services on the mountain. If you do, they will tell you that AAI was ranked as the top concession applicant on Denali, again, as part of the last application process in 2002, just as it was in 1992. This application process is a highly intensive and competitive process in which each company applying for a concession is required to detail every aspect of their operation (past, present, and future) and demonstrate their ability to run quality programs and take care of the mountain in the process, to name a few. For more on that go here: http://aai.cc/news_release_denali.asp ...and their low success rate on Denali Once again, with a little bit of research one would find that AAI’s success rate on Denali isn’t the lowest, quite the opposite actually. The average individual success rate on Denali is 53% overall and 59% in guided groups other than AAI. The Institute's success rate for individuals for the last nine years is 77% and for expeditions it is 84%. There are a number of reasons for this higher than average success rate, and again I invite anyone who would like to discuss the program or our company in general to contact me. Thanks also to Jason for his willingness to provide a senior guides perspective as well. ...Wages Where in the world of business is compensation not an issue? I have met very few folks that can honestly say they get paid that they think they are worth. I am not defending AAI’s pay scale (which is lower than some climbing schools and guide services and higher than others). I have been a “victim” of this pay scale for over 7 years now and I am happy to continue. Working here provides opportunities and experiences that aren’t available elsewhere in the world and industry. As I am sure many of you are aware, the guiding industry as a whole is not the most profitable of enterprises. The cost of running this company and providing these opportunities for employees and climbers, makes high, even average wages an unfortunate impossibility. But no one is forced to work here or at any guide service against their will, and we are all free to leave any time. Some do, many don’t. AAI is fortunate to be an attractive employer to many people. AAI’s range of programs, dedication to teaching, and commitment to environmental education all play a role in attracting extremely well qualified applicants each year, and we have to turn away many highly qualified individuals. Because turn-over is a fact of life in this industry and we too experience it, we have guide training programs and policies in place to assure that the quality training and instruction that we have been known for over thirty years continues. We are devoted to maintaining quality service to clients, effective teaching, and quality guiding, but also to trying to make things better around here within the company, and we openly invite any clients, climbers, employees, or friends to provide input on how we can best do that: http://aai.cc/feedback.asp, info@aai.cc To summarize this long winded diatribe, please do your homework before making accusations and claims that can affect the public's opinion of people, companies, and services. Stating opinions is one thing, as would be making first hand observations and providing factual references. There is enough misinformation floating around as it is even folks go to great lengths to spread truth and paint a perfect picture of reality. Politics will always be an issue in the guide industry, but by working to cut down on rumors, generalizations, and false claims, hopefully we can equip each other to make properly informed decisions about such things. 800-424-2249, cgentzel@aai.cc Coley Gentzel American Alpine Institute 360-671-1505 Edited March 1, 2007 by Climzalot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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