Lambone Posted November 20, 2001 Share Posted November 20, 2001 I agree, it seems that holding the head of the tool with Android leashes will not work very well. I have mine riged so the wrist webbing is as short as possible, that way it is easy to grasp the clasp with a thumb and forefinger. Unfortunately, with that set up you cant reach the top of the tool. Any other recomendations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_Parker Posted November 21, 2001 Share Posted November 21, 2001 Personally, I can't fathom ice climbing and not being able to move my hand onto the head while still in the leashes. Not to mention sometimes having to hit up on the head to clear the tools (yes I do sometimes bury it too far), I think it is essential to be able to grab the head to pull it out if it is down below your waist or use it as a hold. For example, when surmounting the bulge at the very top, often the ice runs out and turns to unconsolidated snow. In this case, best to get one last stick and use that until the axe is all the way down at your knees or even feet as you climb past. Often, by then, you can stand up and walk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambone Posted November 21, 2001 Share Posted November 21, 2001 Don't get me wrong Dave, You can adjust the Androids in order to be able to grab the head easily. It all depends on where you fasten the hose clamp that fixes the leash to the shaft. For that matter, you could just omit the hose clamp all together. Mine are new, so I still need to play around with them a bit. 'Bout to get super techy geek style here... Advantages of putting the clamp low: 1. If you fix the hose clamp low on the shaft the tool has a different balance point. If you hold your arm down and let go of the tool, it wants to stay in your hand. This makes it easy to let the tool go for a second (to lets say ohhh...clip a bolt for instance) and grab it again quickly. 2. By having the hose clamp low, you can also have the wrist leash adjusted to its shortest length. This would make it easier to use the thumb release latch while both taking it off and clipping it back on. Keeping it short will also make it less in the way when you are puting in screws and syuff like that. Disadvantage:You can barely wrap your hand around the top of the tool. Hitting the hammer with your hand to release the tool from a placement is no problem. So how about those apples- can you tell I am bored and jonesin to ice climb or what! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daler Posted November 28, 2001 Share Posted November 28, 2001 I've used the Android off and on for 4 seasons now. Since the first prototype models were releashed.I do believe they are super nice for steep crag ice but most of the time I still go back to the Lock down leash. It is actually faster to get in and out of. People complain about having to place the tool low to loop the lock down loop over the toop of the tool. Solution- just place the tool over your other tool or your elbow and its no problem. This also gives you quick access to the tool to clear ice when you have chosen a bad screw placement. I think the lockdown gives you almost as much support as the android and if your getting that pumped you should rely more on training then the leash. Go back to lower angle ice for awhile!!I have not dropped a tool "yet" (knock on wood) with either method. Dale R. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Caveman Posted November 28, 2001 Share Posted November 28, 2001 I used the android before a few times. It worked good. But for some reason I got rid of it and still prefer a locking leash. I dunno why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambone Posted November 28, 2001 Share Posted November 28, 2001 I miss my lockdowns...sold 'em to willstrickland with my old tools. Hey will, wanna trade! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambone Posted November 28, 2001 Share Posted November 28, 2001 [ 11-28-2001: Message edited by: Lambone ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan_e Posted January 4, 2002 Author Share Posted January 4, 2002 Well, it's the beginning of season two with the Android leashes and they still kick ass! Those who have dropped tools with these leashes probably set them up wrong. I have not even come close to dropping a tool yet and they work in any condition/mode. I have them covered with ice in the Rockies, used them while hacking branches on the top of climbs at Banks Lake, and also hanging while doing a bit of mixed climbing. In my opinion they are one of the better inventions for ice climbing I've seen in over ten years. Kudos to Black Diamond!!!!!!!!!! Dan E. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceIceBaby Posted January 4, 2002 Share Posted January 4, 2002 I do use this leashes and they not worth the 40 big ones but they worth the 7 bucks I pay for them and the lockdown together good leashes but not spectacular another good leash if you can still find them will be the twist leashes also from BD I wonder why they don’t make them any more they only go for so call Hi Tech crap that gear toward your common Yuppie and forget about the basics [ 01-03-2002: Message edited by: IceIceBaby ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul_detrick Posted January 4, 2002 Share Posted January 4, 2002 The twist were ok til you had to set a peice of pro, you eiter had to try and untwistwith the tool in, or take a gamble it would not fall off, if you let it hang, there not bad,for your set arm, but than you need some other kind of leash, for your other arm, I use the simmon's trac up hand slides in and out easy, and locks down easy. Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Caveman Posted January 4, 2002 Share Posted January 4, 2002 The leashes are cool for me except just like the new DMM ones they flop around on screws ropes and other gear. I am shit ice climber and need simple gear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan_e Posted January 4, 2002 Author Share Posted January 4, 2002 A leash that allows me to unclip from my ice tool in seconds is worth well more than $40! If you get the attachment point right, many of the problems reported will be reduced or disappear. Use hose clamp and set attachment point as low as possible. Don't set too low or you won't be able to grab the top of the tool. If the attachment point is lower the clip in part on your wrist will be shorter making it easier to grab to re-clip, it will also help reduce the flopping around of the connection clip. I tuck the clip away when belaying so it does not get snagged (hardly a hassle). The Android may be complicated or high-tech, but IMO it makes ice climbing more enjoyable and helps simplify placing pro on lead, which as most ice climbers know is a big part of the game. This is why I think other leashes suck (I've used all of what is listed below, except for the Grivel) Twist leashes = Can't let tool hang (it can and will untwist and fall off!). So much for fist jams between icicles! Lockdown Leashes = Must adjust correctly or you hand goes numb and or freezes solid, also must re-adjust for each glove size. Takes longer to get hand free of leash and can be akward. Other clip Style Leashes (Grivel model) = Difficult to unclip mini-biner with big gloves and clip in point is not centered on the shaft of the ice tool, this could make swing less precise. Dan E. [ 01-03-2002: Message edited by: dan e ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted January 4, 2002 Share Posted January 4, 2002 charlet saf'lock leash - if you want to use a leash that you never undo this is the one. you lock it down tight and when you place a screw or whatever just let your tool dangle off your wrist. i switched to this system when i changed from mitts to gloves and it works well with the quark because they are so light. but if you dont torque leash as tight as it goes the cuff slips around on your hand so that you end up with the padding on top when the screw is placed and then it can be a bitch to get back to its proper position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan_e Posted January 5, 2002 Author Share Posted January 5, 2002 I can't see that it would be easier than pressing a clip, but you're right I have not tried it (I did state that the Grivel was the only one I had not tried). I may try it out just to see the difference. Dan E. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Caveman Posted January 5, 2002 Share Posted January 5, 2002 quote: Originally posted by dan e: I can't see that it would be easier than pressing a clip, but you're right I have not tried it (I did state that the Grivel was the only one I had not tried). I may try it out just to see the difference.Dan E. It is not a straightforward thing to do. I never thought of it and was showed by pms. Try it. I think it is pretty easy. I just dont like those sort of leashes.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Caveman Posted January 5, 2002 Share Posted January 5, 2002 quote: Originally posted by dan e: Other clip Style Leashes (Grivel model) = Difficult to unclip mini-biner with big gloves and clip in point is not centered on the shaft of the ice tool, this could make swing less precise.Dan E. There is a simple technique for the mini biner. You have to know it but it is easier than the android release once you do. You must not know it because it does not matter if you have mitts of gloves. You turn the mini biner upside down and towards you. Simple. But too complicated for me I used self lockers now. [ 01-04-2002: Message edited by: Cpt.Caveman ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pms Posted January 5, 2002 Share Posted January 5, 2002 I agree wrist leashes get in the way, but are almost allways recommended. How about using the Grivel "leashless" tool, without wrist leash? Leashless with one hand, and wrist leash for the other hand. You could still have a leash tied to your waist harness, in case you drop the leashless tool. Tying the leash to a chest harness would shorten the leash (reduce the tangle factor), and might be nice. I have several Grivel Top Machines availible for free demo if folk want to play with this idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willstrickland Posted January 9, 2002 Share Posted January 9, 2002 quote: Originally posted by G-spotter: Why does everyone in America climb with the leash, in Europe we now call the leash as aid, and to do a "free ascent" you must climb leashless. So those steel sharp objects on your feet are your toenails? Those picks grow right out of your elbow? It's all aid, hang on a screw, hang on your tool...what's the difference? You can dangle off a leash all day, but with the new "leashless" systems they're just adding more "aid" implements by putting big hooks or knobs or things on the end of the shaft. Might as well make a shaft that flares with a big hole in the middle, that way I can plop a hand jam in the middle of the shaft, is that aid? There's no leash that way. Do you think the boys (and girls) putting up hard shit in the mtns are saying "Hey man, you should lower and re-climb that pitch 'cause you rested on a spectre and stepped on that pin, that's not a free ascent" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdietsch Posted January 9, 2002 Share Posted January 9, 2002 go will, go Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ade Posted January 9, 2002 Share Posted January 9, 2002 Funny I thought the only people who climbed leashless were the ones doing competitions or trying to get media attention. They also climb with tools so light that they don't swing properly and picks so thin they don't take any abuse, mainly because competition routes have manufactured placements. I've tried climbing (real) ice with a Simond Scud and it's about as much use as a chocolate teapot. On and Europe suddently seems to not include Scotland, where last time I looked leashes were still pretty much in vogue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan_e Posted January 9, 2002 Author Share Posted January 9, 2002 Climbing ice w/o leashes is stupid (IMO). Who gives a rats ass about what the euros think. As for Android Leashes, the still kick arse! A few isolated problems with the clips, big freakin' deal. Any one who has been buying gear long enough should know to inspect it for defects. No climbing manufacturer produces 100% defect free products, it's impossible. BD products (again, IMO) are the best available. The make the best screws, strongest cams, and their quality control is much better than it used to be. Dan E. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Caveman Posted January 10, 2002 Share Posted January 10, 2002 I know you would respond that way Dan. Thanks! It cracks me up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafael_H Posted January 10, 2002 Share Posted January 10, 2002 Leashless is a totally different ball game, try it, on lead, before dismissing! I guarantee all the nonsense about "aid" will quickly evaporate. Haven't tried the specialized handles but doubt they equal a leash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daler Posted January 10, 2002 Share Posted January 10, 2002 Not that I'm a huge fan of it "yet" but leashless is catching on quick. Many of the hardest routes are being done as we speak without leashes. And i'm not talking about sport protected dry tool fests. I'm talking about Artic Dream, Riptide, The replicant and most of the other Big Rigs out there. And yes by North American climbers.Will it go main stream? How many of you used to climb with cords attaching you're tool to your harness for placing gear of for back up. Climbing without umbilical cords was once thought as crazy!! dale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan_e Posted January 10, 2002 Author Share Posted January 10, 2002 Well, I for one never climbed with those cords, but only because they seemed like they would get in the way. It looks like the some of the euros are using them in case they drop a leashless tools, how dumb is that?! That's what the damn leash is for, duh! I could care less who is climbing leashless, be it in Europe, Canada, or in the States. Using leashes will never be considered aid in my mind, but rather the smart thing to do. As someone else pointed out, most tools being used leashless have some sort of hand stop at the end or special handle so it's not like you are just gripping the tool. It sounds like it will become more of an option, but to suddenly say using leashes is "aiding" is just plain stupid! Dan E. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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