carolyn Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 Im posting this in the newbies forum, cause I feel like I should know this - but I dont! In the last couple weeks Ive had a number of people tell me that the local gym is suggesting they wrap the rope around itself near the anchors as a way to increase friction when belaying someone who is bigger than you. I dont have decades worth of knowledge and experience. However, this just doesnt seem to make sense to me. I mean, it makes sense. It just doesnt seem like the best idea. First, I dont think I want my rope constantly being rubbed together like that. Second, how is that going to keep me from getting lifted? The same amount of weight is getting forced on the belayer, isnt it? I can see the friction making it more difficult to drop the person. I can also see the added friction making it more difficult to properly belay the climber (without excessive 'penalty' slack). Third, MAYBE...just MAYBE this is practical for a gym setting. Yet, how practical is it to teach this to people when they may wind up climbing outside? Or belaying a leader someday? Wouldnt you want to teach someone how and where to stand to decrease a pull? Discuss the pros and cons of clipping into an anchor (and maybe even having them available at the gym)? How about having someone hold you down, when that is an option? I know I have plenty left to learn about climbing. But my senses tell me this is not the best tactic and not something I would recommend or teach other people Correct me if Im wrong or Explain to me how this is an exceptable way to belay when there is a big difference in weight between the climber and belayer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
counterfeitfake Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 It seems like a bad idea to me too. Not a disastrous idea, but a bad idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra_Commander Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 I love the gym. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephH Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 Ask them if they do that with their own ropes... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daler Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 Depends on the kind of anchors! A lot of gyms use large round stock steel tubes for there anchors- 6 or more inches in diameter- If you put an extra rap around it it will increase the friction alot and make for easier belaying with folks that are light. it also makes the ropes last longer as they are sujected to way less impact force during TR falls. Even though the forces are already small they make them even smaller and save the ropes. Obviously if they are carabiners this will not work. dale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dechristo Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 Word is Minnesota has a paucity of qualified belayers. Your tale tells truth told. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 Quit going to the gym! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbconlin Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 Wrapping the rope seemed to be standard at all the gyms I have gone to. At least one gym I used to frequent also had belayer anchors available that came out of the floor padding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolyn Posted January 19, 2007 Author Share Posted January 19, 2007 It seems like a bad idea to me too. Not a disastrous idea, but a bad idea. That was pretty much my thought. And Daler, Thanks for explaining it further. I dont go to the gym very often, so I thought maybe I was missing something. I just wish these guys would clarify to people that its really only a trick to use in THEIR gym - not everywhere and anywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolyn Posted January 19, 2007 Author Share Posted January 19, 2007 Word is Minnesota has a paucity of qualified belayers. Your tale tells truth told. Amen! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolyn Posted January 19, 2007 Author Share Posted January 19, 2007 And Kevbone- If you dont have anything nice to say, dont say anything at all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
selkirk Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 Depends on the kind of anchors! A lot of gyms use large round stock steel tubes for there anchors- 6 or more inches in diameter- If you put an extra rap around it it will increase the friction alot and make for easier belaying with folks that are light. it also makes the ropes last longer as they are sujected to way less impact force during TR falls. Even though the forces are already small they make them even smaller and save the ropes. Obviously if they are carabiners this will not work. dale Increses the friction a whole bunch. It would certainly help keep you on the ground Carolyn. The outdoor equivalent would be someone taking a fall with a whole bunch of rope drag. If there's enough rope drag the belayer might not even know. It won't decrease the impact force on the rope though. It would actually increase the force on the climbers side of the rope, as less force would be transfered to the rope on the belayer side. A smaller amount of rope to absorb the impact restults in a higher fall factor. With carabiners and real rock it seems like a great way to get your rope stuck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
climbnsparky Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 is this at vertical endevors?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Displaced Native Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 Call me a gaper or whatever...but I can't seem to visualize what you mean by wrapping the rope on itself near the anchors...What part of this equation am I missing? What anchors do you mean? God I feel dumb, but I had to ask. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra_Commander Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 I can just see someone climb up to the anchor, say "I think you'll want a second wrap on this one dear", then proceed to take the rope off the stock and wrap it a few times while gripping the top hold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 And Kevbone- If you dont have anything nice to say, dont say anything at all! I dont believe my comment had nice or mean behind it. Sorry to offend, not my intention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
high_on_rock Posted January 20, 2007 Share Posted January 20, 2007 This was taught also at a top rope manager certification course I took. Makes great sense to me. It does provide more friction for the belayer, the ropes are not rubbing across one spot in the rope, the ropes are rubbing in a constantly moving place and therefore will not burn through. I have used it often since learning the trick, and it has worked well. If you want to know how much extra friction it adds, put a few wraps in the rope next time you try pulling your rope. I use it outdoors and it works beautifully. I vote "yes." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snoboy Posted January 24, 2007 Share Posted January 24, 2007 We use this technique to increase friction when evacuating chairlifts. It works very well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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