Jump to content
  • Announcements

    • olyclimber

      WELCOME TO THE CASCADECLIMBERS.COM FORUMS   02/03/18

      We have upgraded to new forum software as of late last year, and it makes everything here so much better!  It is now much easier to do pretty much anything, including write Trip Reports, sell gear, schedule climbing related events, and more. There is a new reputation system that allows for positive contributors to be recognized,  it is possible to tag content with identifiers, drag and drop in images, and it is much easier to embed multimedia content from Youtube, Vimeo, and more.  In all, the site is much more user friendly, bug free, and feature rich!   Whether you're a new user or a grizzled cascadeclimbers.com veteran, we think you'll love the new forums. Enjoy!
Sign in to follow this  
sobo

"Why don't we charge 'em for gettin' rescued?"

Recommended Posts

...I am very glad we as a community are fortunate enough to have you on our side :)

 

So does this mean that we're not part of the Rebellion??

 

(2 + 2 Muff... c'mon, you can do it...) :laf:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
...I am very glad we as a community are fortunate enough to have you on our side :)

 

So does this mean that we're not part of the Rebellion??

 

(2 + 2 Muff... c'mon, you can do it...) :laf:

 

you are asking alot of me today sobo :cry: don't tease the blond girl :nurd:

 

we are on a different wave length because i am not following :(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i watched 'all' (80 hrs) the coverage on tv, bouncing between cnn/fox/cnbc and others.,and i found that at first, the experts they used were lamest then became lamer and only at the end after a whole week did they finally have climbers talk about climbing. in the info vacuum, they started to speculate about anything.. and then propped up the story with the cost issue. after kj was found they had enough to talk about. all in all though , the coverage became better by the day to the point of being ok.it is very important to have real spokesmen for climbing early on. a good nf picture with routes and glaciers travel time etc would have given info to milk. if they got nothing to say they have to make it up.. fox is worst msnbc was best

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Thanks for the link Sobo.

 

What everyone has failed and will continue to fail in this "cost" is what are the incremental costs for a rescue.

 

For example, if a sheriff was not coordinating the rescue, he would still get paid becuase he is salaried. His cost then does not get factored into the rescue becuase it is not an incremental cost. Military personell will still be training, so their cost does not factor. The only incremental cost I can think about is hiring personal contractors for each mission, and the incremental fuel for the missions.

 

The sheriff sprung for a few hot meals for the volunteers. Plus, some of the deputies were probably scoring a little overtime. Seems like a pretty light burden on the John Q. Taxpayer. Amusing how we end up defending ourselves against the same questions year after year.

 

Still, it looks like we may be gaining some ground. This time KATU news ran a very intelligent story from our point of view. I was so proud.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What is amazing is that any person would bicker over this who lives in a country with a 2.6 Trillion dollar budget for 2006.

 

What is even more astonishing is that most folks don't even know how our system works in regards to taxation, allocation, budget, etc.

Yet so many sound so quick to assume that the money "wasted" on saving lives (or attempting to save lives) could be used better elsewhere.

What compounds my disgust is that the majority of Americans are in financial debt themselves or else they are living paycheck to paycheck. And they presume to know how the country should spend its money? The arrogance and the cold-heartedness is so overwhelming that it is impossible to comprehend.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
...I am very glad we as a community are fortunate enough to have you on our side :)

 

So does this mean that we're not part of the Rebellion??

 

(2 + 2 Muff... c'mon, you can do it...) :laf:

 

you are asking alot of me today sobo :cry: don't tease the blond girl :nurd:

 

we are on a different wave length because i am not following :(

 

Think Star Wars...

Mike Gauthier = Evil Dark Lord (cc.com title) => Muffster say "...fortunate enough to have you on our side" => we follow the Evil Dark Lord => allied with the Empire => opposed to the Rebellion/Jedi/etc. => we are not part of the Rebel Alliance. :nurd: :nurd: :nurd: :nurd: :nurd: :nurd:

 

QED

 

Studies show that frequent sexual activity improves the brain's capacity for deductive reasoning. Better go get some! 8D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
...I am very glad we as a community are fortunate enough to have you on our side :)

 

So does this mean that we're not part of the Rebellion??

 

(2 + 2 Muff... c'mon, you can do it...) :laf:

 

you are asking alot of me today sobo :cry: don't tease the blond girl :nurd:

 

we are on a different wave length because i am not following :(

 

Think Star Wars...

Mike Gauthier = Evil Dark Lord (cc.com title) => Muffster say "...fortunate enough to have you on our side" => we follow the Evil Dark Lord => allied with the Empire => opposed to the Rebellion/Jedi/etc. => we are not part of the Rebel Alliance. :nurd::nurd::nurd::nurd::nurd::nurd:

 

QED

:rolleyes: now i don't feel bad for not getting it.

 

GOOFBALL!!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Muffy, you are so much fun to play with. I bet you were the most popular kid on the playground in your day. Seriously!

 

And I mean that in the nicest way. You've got a thick hide girl, and that's the way I like 'em!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Muffy, you are so much fun to play with. I bet you were the most popular kid on the playground in your day. Seriously!

 

:crosseye: what is fun when you are 30 something does not fly so much in SMALLLLLL town america in the 80's.

 

your sweet though :blush:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i just read some of the letters to the editor on oregonlive.com. made me sick. if you read enough of them you will see folks bent out of shape about rescuers not helping the kim's (stranded motorists) but wanting to charge climbers.

 

kim went up a road that had signs indicating that they were not maintained. he had no clue where he was going. the search started someplace between portland and sanfrancisco.

 

i am fully outraged by the high costs of that rescue. therefore, i propose that ms. kim pay back ALL costs even if it takes the rest of her life. furthermore since she will be working all the time, she should just put her kids up for adoption. that will teach her, yeah.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I emailed that Nancy Grace (who I am convinced is O'Reilly in drag) but no response. :eveeel:

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Duh. They left a note that there was no one to buy the pass from when they parked, and they would pay for it when they returned.

 

You really are committed to finding any fault you can with these guys, huh? I'm sorry your parents didn't love you enough, but it's time to Kelly, Brian, and Jerry rest in peace.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm outraged that a wireless engineer estimated the Kims' location to be within the immediate vicinity of Bear Camp Road, but the rescue coordinator did not order a search with a heat-seeking helicopter for two days, even though the National Guard had one fueled and awaiting orders. Not to mention, she had no prior SAR-related experience prior to being hired. But here's the thing that takes the cake...her direct supervisor said he ignored a late-night call from her about the case because he was watching a football game on TV. Absolutely disgusting.

 

If Wampler and the rest of his team had been in charge, I bet James Kim would be home safe and sound now.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

obviously you are correct. blame the SAR folks. make them pay. doesnt matter some guy drove by THREE road signs indicating that the road was not maintained in the winter. took a wrong turn off that road, and kept going. doesnt matter that he had no clue where he was going nor bothered to tell anyone. doesnt matter that it took 4 days or so to figure out they were missing between San Fran and Portland.

 

if SAR personnel are not smart enough to save all the idiots then they must be failures...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey, I'm all for personal responsibility. I completely agree the Kims put themselves in the situation. But, then again, we all make mistakes. The volunteer SARs folks, a pilot in particular, saved Kati and her daughters...heroes in my book.

 

What I am against is incompetence, laziness, and shirking one's job responsibilities. These aren't SARs folks I'm ticked off at. These are government employees who failed to perform the job they are being paid for. An undersheriff not answering his phone (right after a huge storm) because of a football game???? Unconscionable.

 

Btw, the wireless engineer figured out and reported their proximate location 2 days into the search. A lodge owner in the area also called multiple police agencies to report tire tracks down the road (which he couldn't follow in his snowmobile once he hit bare ground) and urged them to check the logging roads thoroughly based on his countless experiences redirecting lost motorists. That was day one of the search.

 

On the other hand, according to a post here, Wampler instructed pilots to check out a tip from a blogger re: something shiny/yellow (?) sighted on the mountain - just one example of the thoroughness of the Hood SAR response. As I said, it's too bad the Hood SAR team wasn't in charge of the Kim SAR effort.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

are you sure you could have done better! i read that report and felt sad because it turned out wrong . she did her best, she tried, she even admitted being over her head, that's courageous.

.that was a freak thing,

it seems a stronger gate would have worked.

a bigger sign?

if he stayed he'd been ok.but he tried to help.

 

that's different from SAR. that's all they do.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree; it took a lot of courage for her to admit that. Plus, she did call her supervisor for guidance. He's the bozo. But, then again, she also took a job she was totally unequipped to handle experience-wise. To paraphrase Rick Rescorla, in an emergency, people revert to their training.

 

As for the gate, I don't know why the loggers don't use a lockbox like realtors.

 

Anyway, I didn't intend to debate the merits of the search for the Kims. Sorry for the hijack.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

you guys apparently missed my sarcasm and earlier post. many people want to help others in need. thats great and as it should be.

 

the problem i have is when climbers are singled out over wayward travellers, fishermen, hunters or lost hikers.

 

IMO the climbers behaved more resposibly than the Kims did in southern Oregon but nobody called for rescue costs from Ms Kim. and i am glad they didnt.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've been here for about a week...thats enough for me..I was drawn to this site from somewhere else because of the tradegy on mt hood...I can't believe the way you people bicker...I'm leaving here with the opinion that a good part of you are irresponsible...I wouldn't be caught on the mountain with a good portion of you...The Kims in their tradegy were partly at fault but also the park system was at fault for not monitoring their LOCKED GATES...as far as you climbers, it should be a requirement to take a transponder or locator if you choos to do this activity that involves a certain amount of "high" as equal amount of "real danger"..you sit here and act like a bunch of teenagers...good bye...act on the side of safety..it wont hurt..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Sign in to follow this  

×