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fern

MT Hood Continued

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I was wondering how they knew so many specifics re a time line. No doubt this is their reference:

 

http://www.katu.com/news/4956501.html

 

"Photos taken by Kelly James raise concerns over ability to survive"

 

The photos would have a time/date stamp on them. At first, I thought perhaps they had left a note with James, but it was the pix, no doubt.

 

It appears the photos depict what gear they carried with them on the ascent, and possibly what gear they did not have.

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Nobody has even suggested the possibility that Kelly could have been knocked unconscious during whatever incident caused his arm injury. (A crev fall, from which Brian/Jerry self-rescued him?) The Dallas paper reported that on Sunday when he called his family, he was already disoriented (this is less than 2 days in a snow cave...seems kinda early for hypothermia dimensia). When asked where the other guys were, he said that one was in an airplane and the other was in town getting help. Head injury, perhaps? Making his survival even more grim? Would the guys be able to aid him down 300 feet from the summit? Is that even possible? And, if so, perhaps they decided to leave him in the cave because they couldn't get any further with him or his condition would not allow it? Perhaps he was in and out of consciousness while in the cave and on Sunday night he finally came to enough to realize he could call his family?

 

Any specific reports on further injuries besides the severely broken arm?

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These climbers were truely living.

 

 

i do not want to sound crass. i have nothing but sympathy for the climbers and their loved ones.

 

but dude, have you read the news. they are not alive.

 

the news that i just watched had part of a news conference with one of the climbers family members. he said that the James Kelly said that he always felt closest to god when he was climbing. perhaps the comment is that these men were doing what they love(d) to do. some people go to church to pray and some of us climb or hike something to have a conversation with god. this is absolutely a tragedy, but let us not forget that climbers (all of us) CHOSE to climb.

 

Why don't you spank Muffy?

 

i realy don't get what you are trying to say here. would you care to elaborate? perhaps in PM so that i can give you a piece of my mind in private.

Edited by Muffy_The_Wanker_Sprayer

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Can anyone post any sources of info for the phone call Kelly made Dec 10? I have heard that he was disoriented, and indicated he was in a snow cave and the team was in trouble, but who was the call made to?

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So Mr D, where is Cooper Spur and the "gullies" in the pic we keep hearing about (for those of us who are not that familiar with Hood and these routes). Thanks

 

Grabbed these pics from other posts in recent days, and used MS Paint for a couple of VERY quick & dirty edits. I hope the original pic owners won't object to my use of their products.

 

Green line is Cooper Spur. Red line is left NF gully. Yellow line is right NF gully. Broad blue squiqqle area is the Eliot Glacier. Orangeish squiggle is the Snowdome.

 

hoodnfanchorlines.JPG

 

hood_nflines.JPG

 

 

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The Dallas paper reported that on Sunday when he called his family, he was already disoriented (this is less than 2 days in a snow cave...seems kinda early for hypothermia dimensia).

 

Dubious assumption.

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Hyponatremia is another medical condition occurring from an imbalance of electrolytes (extreme exertion is one path to this condition). Impaired judgment and disorientation are likely symptoms. Fluid intake consisting of water alone exacerbates the condition. You must receive some salt to alleviate this condition.

 

The autopsy tomorrow may shed some light on whether Kelly suffered any traumatic head injury.

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Can anyone also enlighten me on how PINGING works? I don't own a cellphone and whatever info you have would be great.

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I'm glad that folks are very interested in these climbers, mountain climbing in general and Mt. Hood in particular but based on a number of posts full of nothing but questions I'm beginning to question the truthfulness of the old adage, "There's no such thing as a stupid question." Take a deep breath, do some independent research, read all of the prior posts, take some time to digest the info you've collected and then, and only after some critical thought, consider posting your question. Thank you.

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Johnny R, I don't know what you may think is a dumb question but I would have to say it is unreasonable, in my view, to request that people refrain from asking a question here if they have not first read through all 50 pages of this discussion or conducted a Google search or whatever. I guess opinions vary on this point.

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Can anyone also enlighten me on how PINGING works? I don't own a cellphone and whatever info you have would be great.

 

Pinging is nothing more than a handshake btwx the cell tower and cell phone. Something like

 

Tower: "Hello, anyone there?"

Phone: "Yep, phone No. 123 reporting in"

 

or the phone says:

 

Any Towers out there?

Tower: Yep, tower 2 right here.

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Something else heard mention in Wampler's statement this morning is that even when you have 20 people climbing a mountain, you only have one set of tracks, because everyone steps in the first person's tracks. He said there were two sets of tracks that were found, side by side, indicating that POSSIBLY, one of the two was helping another. He didn't say whether he thought the injured person was Kelly, or one of the others. Just stated the possibility that someone was injured on the ascent, which would explain two sets of tracks.

 

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Thank you to everyone for their input during this horrible chain of events. I even extend my thanks to the people who have shared their spray as well. I think it helps exemplify the passion held by all of us.

 

I have been reading the thread from it's creation and I finally couldn't keep my mouth shut any longer. I had to say a couple of things.

 

People really kept it pretty together for most of the week while waiting for the storm to break. The tension and concern were easily palpable. The real flame fests, attitudes, spray, jumping to conclusions and other issues didn't really surface until Mr. James was found. I liken this cyber situation much like a spring...all week long the tension was building. That spring was being wound overtight. When Kelly was found, people just exploded. Their brain and sometimes rational thought were overpowered by the concern, passion, frustration, and saddness. In my opinion, the "arm chair quarterbacking" and other similar posts are nothing more than the natural human reaction.

 

There are a good number of people that find questioning the chain of events as disrespectful. I disagree. If I, or someone from my close circle where to perish in similar circumstances I would really want the world to know what happened. I am a very firm believer in the adage of "those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it". Churchill's statement doesn't just apply to world politics.

 

The flip side of that coin is that I do agree that the recall of events needs to be as accurate as possible. Speculation and theory may make for interesting conversations and people may be able to glean some insight or knowledge about risk managment/accident prevention. However, speculation and theories does not do the people directly involved any sort of justice. Only the recount of true events (to the best we can learn) will honor the fallen and teach the living.

 

I like to think that should my life be ended prematurely in the pursuit of my passions, my last moments will not have been in vain. That someone, somewhere, will discover what happened, be them good attempts or horrible mistakes, and learn from those moments. Do not make the same errors that I may or may not have made. If I succembed to a twist of fate beyond my control or if I made a lethal momentary lapse in judgement..find the truth, share it, learn from it.

 

So my point is that I wish to treat Kelly, Nikko, and Brian in the same manner that I would want to be treated.

 

Steve

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I'm glad that folks are very interested in these climbers, mountain climbing in general and Mt. Hood in particular but based on a number of posts full of nothing but questions I'm beginning to question the truthfulness of the old adage, "There's no such thing as a stupid question." Take a deep breath, do some independent research, read all of the prior posts, take some time to digest the info you've collected and then, and only after some critical thought, consider posting your question. Thank you.

 

I did numerous searches on the question before I posted it. The only context I can find a ping in (on google or anywhere else) is quick references in relation to this story and the James Kim story. I can't find a single explanation of What it is and how it works in locating people.

 

If you don't care to reply, don't feel obligated, but I figured the many folks here who know the situation better than I could enlighten me.

 

It was indicated last night that this is the place to ask questions, and apparently some seem to resent it. A few of the climbers posting here seem very hostile toward the newbies, and I fail to understand it.

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Care to comment on how long a person can survive who starts into hypothermia and doesn't get treatment? This would be useful for all of us to know for the future.

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Johnny R, I don't know what you may think is a dumb question but I would have to say it is unreasonable, in my view, to request that people refrain from asking a question here if they have not first read through all 50 pages of this discussion or conducted a Google search or whatever. I guess opinions vary on this point.

 

Right on, Matt.

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mattp,

I hear you but those posts with suppositions / assumptions worded as questions are more like clever trolling. I like questions that ask for information like many that have been posted and really like the many quality responses especially those with images (1000 words, eh?). I was a newbie once too so I understand the curiosity but a post with nothing but a string of questions that are, for the most part, unanswerable until facts are determined (i.e. an autopsy)? Not necessary IMHO.

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Can anyone also enlighten me on how PINGING works? I don't own a cellphone and whatever info you have would be great.

 

Pinging is nothing more than a handshake btwx the cell tower and cell phone. Something like

 

Tower: "Hello, anyone there?"

Phone: "Yep, phone No. 123 reporting in"

 

or the phone says:

 

Any Towers out there?

Tower: Yep, tower 2 right here.

 

I take it you know you've "pinged" when you've gotten a signal -strength indication?

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Any specific reports on further injuries besides the severely broken arm?

 

I think you're making an assumption that it's a severely broken arm. Someone else said dislocated. Maybe, maybe not. I think all we've heard for certain is that someone perceived a visual deformity in the arm?

 

Regarding the phonecall, I dunno how much we can infer from that, given that reception was bad, and the only ones who heard it were the family (they can't be expected to give an unbiased recount of it given the circumstances). The deceased could have been suffering from any subset (all, some, or none) of the following in the snowcave: dehydration, shock, hypothermia, carbon monoxide poisoning, frostbite, etc.

 

I'm sure some more information will be discovered pending the autopsy, but really, most of that is just the family's concern. If there's anything that is relevant to promoting climbers' safety, I'm sure the info will be passed along. I think we all wish there would be something to learn from this that would make us safer, but in all likelihood, this may just be a case of bad luck compounded with more bad luck.

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Can anyone also enlighten me on how PINGING works? I don't own a cellphone and whatever info you have would be great.

 

Pinging is nothing more than a handshake btwx the cell tower and cell phone. Something like

 

Tower: "Hello, anyone there?"

Phone: "Yep, phone No. 123 reporting in"

 

or the phone says:

 

Any Towers out there?

Tower: Yep, tower 2 right here.

 

Thanks Jf..I appreciate this.

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Both the MSNBC website anda this KATU video states it was a dislocated shoulder. The night before, many stations were reporting it was probably a broken arm.

 

This link provides the Unedited conference from this morning that Wampler gave. It helped me in only seeing the parts that MSNBC showed on their site, and what I saw on CNN.

 

http://www.katu.com/home/video/4957786.html?video=YHI&t=a

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If multiple towers ping a certain cell phone, they can figure out, by triangulation, roughly where the cell phone is geographically.

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Regarding the phonecall, I dunno how much we can infer from that, given that reception was bad, and the only ones who heard it were the family (they can't be expected to give an unbiased recount of it given the circumstances).

 

I am not asking for more speculation, but only for whatever info was made public about it if any. :) Thanks!

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