Off_White Posted December 14, 2006 Share Posted December 14, 2006 11,249 - 7,000 4,249 feet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonmf76 Posted December 14, 2006 Author Share Posted December 14, 2006 griz, It sounds like you have never climbed in 80 mph winds before. It doesn't launch a body into the air...it knocks you over. BTW, that spot where the guy did launch into the air, only to be caught by his rope to his teammates was on Denali. As for the whole pussy thing...I guess it is just different in Alaska. And the reason I haven't died in the mountains is that I have made the right decisions at the right time. I didn't let my ego get in the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrogdortheBurninator Posted December 14, 2006 Share Posted December 14, 2006 I'd imagine climbing the NF of hood right now would be far more dangerous, physical, and technically demanding than climbing the w. buttress in typical high season conditions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dechristo Posted December 14, 2006 Share Posted December 14, 2006 dude, i can't believe you have not already died in the mtns with thinking like this. Thanks, Griz. This idiot has been bothering me with his self-professed knowledge, evidenced lack of mountain wisdom, and peurile ponderance. jonmofo, you've obviously got the skills and a line on this situation that has baffled evreyone else. You'd better get up there now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Off_White Posted December 14, 2006 Share Posted December 14, 2006 Okay, so no one has an answer that works for you. Hop to it then, please post a TR when you get back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephH Posted December 14, 2006 Share Posted December 14, 2006 There are definitely plenty of folks around Hood River and PDX in their 50's (and I'm not one of them) who have remarkable wisdom, experience, skills, as well as amazing power and endurance who I'd love to know had my back in a bad alpine incident. Beckey isn't the only old guy in the PNW who ever powered up stuff on a regular basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrogdortheBurninator Posted December 14, 2006 Share Posted December 14, 2006 Alasdair, has SMR had any requests at all for additional support in this search? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawkeye69 Posted December 14, 2006 Share Posted December 14, 2006 there was a period there where I climbed for 5 days without seeing another person or a wand in whiteout conditions perhaps you answered yourself.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonmf76 Posted December 14, 2006 Author Share Posted December 14, 2006 (edited) geez guys, I never once said that anyone was doing a bad job or that old climbers are useless...all I was doing is discussing this issue... This is why I can't stand most climber's anymore...all they do is attack you for anything they can come up with. Grow up guys! You know who you are. But thanks to the other thoughtful posts. I do appreciate those. griz...get a life dude. Hawkeye69, true, but you can yell to each other in whiteout or use airhorns..which the guy in the cave might actually hear and yell back. No? TrogdortheBurninator, yes, good point that it is probably more dangerous than the west butt, but 3 lives are at stake and the west butt is considered an easier route on that mountain. Doesn't that warrant a more extreme effort? Edited December 14, 2006 by jonmf76 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyHarry Posted December 14, 2006 Share Posted December 14, 2006 Aside from the clear and present avalanche conditions, we're still talking only 3000' elevation gain at only 11,000' elevation with above freezing temps at 7000'. Doesn't that seem not that bad? I mean, couldn't a team(s) go out with GPS and packs loaded with food, fuel, etc..and just plug on upward? That would prevent more needing to be rescued because they'd be prepared for many days out. They too could dig in to snow caves if conditions got that bad, but they could also bring food and fuel to those 3 guys. As for avoiding the avalanche danger, with that level of wind, couldn't someone get up the leeward side of the ridge? Just wondering out loud here. Sounds like a good strategy too me. But why don't the rescuers just ride their tontons up the mountain then find the climbers and cut the bellies of the tontons open and put the climbers in the tonton's bellies. Maybe there is a beaurocratic rule against that or something though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawkeye69 Posted December 14, 2006 Share Posted December 14, 2006 jon, not attackin you. but there are many others looking at this web site right now for opinions and what not. i agree with you, someone might be able to summit. i just dont know what they would do, nor is it without some risk to themselves. think about what they are lookin for in a whiteout. a hole in the snow? in conditions like these my guess is that they are gonna be so busy with their own survival that only blind dumb luck would lead to finding anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawkeye69 Posted December 14, 2006 Share Posted December 14, 2006 clearly it is not tonton season...besides, those light sabers need recharging all too frequently... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdietsch Posted December 14, 2006 Share Posted December 14, 2006 So why hasn't someone just pushed their way up there with a backpack full of freeze dried beef stroganoff (insert your favorite Mountain House flavor here)? Or am I just crazy? I have climbed in these conditions a lot on Denali for a lot longer than 3000' elevation gain and I'm no superhero. So what's stopping you? Go for it. Just do us all a favor and tell the authorities before you go that you do not want anyone to come looking for you if you don't return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dechristo Posted December 14, 2006 Share Posted December 14, 2006 he can't hear anyone but himself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawkeye69 Posted December 14, 2006 Share Posted December 14, 2006 Q: How fast does the wind have to be in order to "blow a person away" and not just knock them over? Is there a specific formula for this? A: There is no specific formula to determine at what wind speed a person would be knocked over or even blown away. The Beaufort wind scale, in use since 1805, is based on observations of the effects of the wind. Number 8 on this scale is a gale-force wind (39 to 46 mph) and would be sufficient to knock the average person over. Number 12 on the scale is hurricane-force (74 mph and greater), certainly enough to “blow a person away.” from the internet, must be right.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephH Posted December 14, 2006 Share Posted December 14, 2006 Jon, Look, your original assertions is hard to interpret much of any other way other than that folks are either being constrained or that they aren't capable. If folks are being constrained you aren't going to be any help as a Rambo on the scene; as for not being capable, that would be an incredibly brash and naive assumption. It's not like the none of the locals have done Denali or a lot of other big name peaks in tough conditions. This isn't the first rescue on Hood either - some of them do actually know what they're doing up there and doing everything possible to extract these guys alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonmf76 Posted December 14, 2006 Author Share Posted December 14, 2006 Joseph, I agree. Fair enough. But if it is raining at 7000' to me that would seem pretty warm even at 11,000' I mean we're not talking continuous 80 mph and -30 F conditions. Oh forget it...all those mountains and I still don't know the first thing about climbing..excuse me but I need to go take down all my pictures now. Anybody wanna buy some down pants? and a pile of XG-Ks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawkeye69 Posted December 14, 2006 Share Posted December 14, 2006 i too, have wondered if everything is being done. but when you look at the conditions, evaluate the risks and think about what you are looking for, it seems like there is little else we can do but hope for a break in the weather. it is very sad and frustrating. i hope to volunteer in the future, but i may be one of those old guys there. as a young guy i was too busy doing my own thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephH Posted December 14, 2006 Share Posted December 14, 2006 (edited) I was out on rock in sustained 50-60kt gusts last Friday, that's enough to knock you off a stance if you aren't real careful. I would imagine someone could [real slowly] soldier on up through about 70-80kt and after that you'd be having a lousy day or in a cave. The odds of accomplishing any more than just staying alive yourself would have to be pretty much zero if you didn't know exactly where someone was. [edit: I'll pass on further comment as well...] Edited December 14, 2006 by JosephH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dechristo Posted December 14, 2006 Share Posted December 14, 2006 Also, your arrogance is not above unnecessarily creating doubt in the minds of loved ones that everything and all is being done by qualified persons to rescue these guys. nice job Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonmf76 Posted December 14, 2006 Author Share Posted December 14, 2006 (edited) hawkeye69, That's funny...I've been thinking about volunteering again but I assumed that the groups are now all filled with too many macho young guys..I am too old to spend 3 hours arguing about what pulley ratio to use while the climber in the crevasse is freezing to death. I guess your first sentence is pretty much the situation. Thanks for your sensible answers. Dechristo, You're an ass. I never suggested that there was an option available that was not being exercised. That would be absurd. I was merely trying to decipher if anyone else thought there might be another option. I am not at Mount Hood right now. I am just watching the news and the weather like everyone else and am now scratching my head a bit. And I came here to see if anyone else had more intimate knowledge about this route and mountain. The guys who have climbed there gave thoughtful and helpful answers. The guys who simply attacked me clearly had no specific knowledge of this route or mountain. Edited December 14, 2006 by jonmf76 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawkeye69 Posted December 14, 2006 Share Posted December 14, 2006 i think i know how you are feeling. there are always doubts about it in this situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dechristo Posted December 14, 2006 Share Posted December 14, 2006 Dechristo, You're an ass. I never suggested that there was an option available that was not being exercised. That would be absurd. I was merely trying to decipher if anyone else thought there might be another option. thanks, by the contradiction in this post, combined with your title for this thread, you've clearly shown to all your lack of clarity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon Posted December 14, 2006 Share Posted December 14, 2006 Sounds like a good strategy too me. But why don't the rescuers just ride their tontons up the mountain then find the climbers and cut the bellies of the tontons open and put the climbers in the tonton's bellies. Maybe there is a beaurocratic rule against that or something though. I believed Congress passed a rule that you can't operate your lightsaber in a protected wilderness area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonmf76 Posted December 14, 2006 Author Share Posted December 14, 2006 DeChristo, Do you have anything thoughtful to add to this post? We had our fist fight, now let's get back to discussing climbing and this situation. Jonmf76 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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