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cluck

3 Lost on Mount Hood

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Hello, why are they making the families wait until tomorrow to make positive identification of the body--they had cameras to take all the other pictures--including the cave, the footsteps, etc. WHY couldn't they take a picture of the deceased and show it to the family now so they could start closure!!!!!!!

 

I believe the families know exactly who the searchers found. The Sheriff is the only with holding this information to the public. I knew something was up today when the live feed from the Northside of the mountain stopped. They continued to broadcast live from the southside, you had to know something was going on. Seems the media is being pretty respectful of the situation right now. Else, they would have been talking about the radio chatter that would have indicated they found a body or second cave. There was no mention of this until after the Chinook had launched to pick-up the guys. You know by then the rescuer(s) down where the caves were located were already on their way back up to catch their ride home.

Edited by CrazyFlattlander

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As many have also stated I think that "Y" is almost defintely a boulard.

 

I can even see the slight curve with the rope.

 

The guy being interview right now by Lary King knows his shit and is doing a great job.

 

 

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Thank you for your response, I hope the family knows because that would be the most agonizing thing to experience---but I can tell you that my stomach hurts tonight knowing that this climber has deceased---I guess it does not matter what mountains you have climbed and what experience you have---when mother nature is out there, you have to know that she is in charge and will do what ever she wants no matter.........

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The "Y" does not look like a signal to me. From what I saw on TV was a shot of an anchor. It looks like the picture of the rope anchor was turned horizontal. Perhaps he was belaying from the top? Perhaps the other two did leave him in the cave and descended the NF from that anchor and had an accident. I can not tell because of the scale. I am not sure if it's a buried anchor or made with ice screws into hard ice beneath the snow.

 

One of the talking heads over at Fox (figure) speculated that perhaps the Y config. was perhaps "ladders" similarly to what is common on Khumbu icefall on Everest...

 

I dont think so, unless they hired some sherpas to lug that up there ahead of time and set up the fixed lines... Which I doubt in any case...

 

But I agree, as does probably all the other climbers on this board, that the Y is an anchor or bollard. Perhaps set up as a rap anchor for the decent...

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"One of the talking heads over at Fox (figure) speculated that perhaps the Y config. was perhaps "ladders" similarly to what is common on Khumbu icefall on Everest..."

 

Oh my god. Someone needs a good shaking. Did (s)he speculate on "how they got those ropes up there?"

Edited by michael_layton

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"One of the talking heads over at Fox (figure) speculated that perhaps the Y config. was perhaps "ladders" similarly to what is common on Khumbu icefall on Everest..."

 

Oh my god. Someone needs a good shaking. Did (s)he speculate on "how they got those ropes up there?"

 

I dunno, He probably googled up garbage about Everest and probably just plain old "made that part up"...

 

I was yelling at the TV "NO, NO, NO, who the hell would drag that stuff up?!!?"

 

But alas, it was Fox news, and they are known for just making up the news anyhow...

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Here is some speculation. For the lack of any thought I just can not see these guys splitting up. For instance, if one was injuried why leave them alone when you have a cell phone to make an SOS call. Even with crappy reception - why not one climb to the summit place a SOS call and rejoin the others. I am sure they knew they were near the top.

 

If one or more were exhausted near the summit I can see them digging two snow caves so they could get out of the wind and warm up. (Note this would before the storms). Digging multiple cave might seem odd but if it is windy you want to get out of the wind ASAP. Why they are not connected I could not answer.

 

Kelly may not have realized his state and crawled into a cave by himself thinking he would be fine. Sunday night he calls and is not doing well.

 

The storms then hit. They hang for saveral days. Saddly one pass away. The other two feeling they must move and take everything they really need and try to descend - but to get out of there they must go up first. Perhaps over but as I and others have said Cooper's Spur would be the most obvious.

 

 

Some other thoughts - I can not see these guys leaving tools behind. You never want to that especially with unknown terrain. The tools and other gear found must be of the person in the cave. Leaving the rope surpises me though.

 

Edited by ScaredSilly

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Ice climbing and ski mountaineering in the summer would be a much better way to go except for the fact there wouldn't be any ice or snow. Winter should be outlawed.

 

Summer too. Liquid water kills!

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it seems they left kelly because he was hurt(fall?) and they went down the route they had decided as an exit, for help.he waited until he felt his only chance to survive was to go over the south side(footsteps) but weather forced him to cave-in again but with less gear.i would look on the proposed descent for them.

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Many speculating about what happened aren't looking closely at the available info, at least as it's been reported. James called last Sunday. He was in a cave, near the summit, hurt (or "in trouble"), and his two teamates had gone for help. The weather was bad all week, with only brief and marginal weather windows. There are tracks leading UP, presumably to the summit, though top steps seem to be erased by wind/snow/ice. There are multiple axe belay holes in the snow next to the steps, suggesting at least two people ascended. Today a body was found in a second cave above the first. These were experienced climbers with minimal gear planning a light-n-fast ascent of a technical route in winter. By all appearances they did all the right things to attempt self-rescue/preservation. SO, a theory... James got hurt high on the route. They hunkered down to assess and plan a course of action. The weather crapped out, so they dug in. James was probably too hurt to move, so other two attempted to go up and over for quicker, safer descent of south side to dispatch help for James. They got hit by weather on summit or thereabouts. They got disoriented either had an accident/fall or dug in somewhere because they couldn't navigate in white out conditions. If they tried to push on in white out, they could be nearly anywhere. After a few days with no help arriving and now a dead phone, a desperate James, who was probably out of fuel, made a heroic effort to climb out but couldn't get far. He dug in again and hoped for the best.

 

I'm just bummed the outcome is looking so grim. These guys rocked it, and they just ran into bad luck.

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on another subject, we all live "as we chose". wall street guys get their kicks at the expense of others also.... and soldiers too . doctors get high from saving others, so do those rescuers.(and they accept failure also ) like we say ' one man's fear is another's gear'. we all do what we do for transcendence, for growth.pray, then climb on.

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I thought the reporter said the climbers might have anchored themselves in using the Y config, much the way ladders are anchored on Everest. Still a stupid comment, but not quite as bad.

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ScaredSilly,

 

I agree. Why leave your hurt partner, your rope, tools, etc..?

He only had half an orange left for food as was reported in the paper. Why would his companions not leave him food/fuel if they would be back down at the car with suplies/help? They leaving him while a cell phone was available seems unlikely and that is why sadly, I think there was an accident.

 

I'm not sure how distant apart the caves were. I wonder if both caves were on the NF? I wonder the time span between building of the snow caves.

 

Perhaps the second cave was dug after the accident? That might indicate why there is only one person's gear and shared gear missing. Extra gear, food/fuel may have been carried by the two other climbers.

 

The most obvious question is why not just a direct call to 911 if you have a cell as you pointed out. Even if one is hurt and you have two that are healthy, you call 911. I can not speculate if they had a signal or not. Maybe they/he moved and dug a second cave in a different location to get a cell signal?

 

I do want my speculation to be wrong and have two survivors.

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For the benefit of analysis I went ahead and rotated the picture of the Y-shape. I believe that original orientation of the photo was more correct - when the Y-shape is pointing "downward" the sunlight on the rockface is very strange...this makes me think the original Y-shape pointing to the side is correct. Thoughts?

 

y-shape_rotated.jpg

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regarding the footprints in the snow leading to the summit: It leads me to wonder how recent they are. I know Hood has received much snow over the past few days, so I can only hope that they are from within the last three days.

 

I do know though that footprints can sometimes remain visible for months upon months. I know a guy who climbed either Logan or St Elias in March, when the last ascent had been in June, and he saw ski tracks and prints from then. It has something to do with the prints hardening with the snow, then other fresh snow falling over it is blown away by high winds. Those tracks could be a day old, or they could be 10 days old.

 

Seeing as how none of us know yet when the first climber perished, we can't be sure when the tracks were left. One can only hope for the best for the other unknown two, but hope is all we have to go by right now.

 

Hopefully tomorrow brings either great news or closure. My best to all of the families.

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Obviously we all have to wait and let this unfold. Everyone has excellent opinoions about what we saw and heard today. However it has created many questions. One thing to keep in mind is that what you may think they did, and what could have happened, is usually based on logic. They may have been in a mental state that can come in these situations where the logical choices are not what always happens, and good judgement seams to be difficult (at best).

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I am also basing my speculation on earlier comments about Kelly James possibly suffering a concusion at the time he made the call. I think the poster makes sense.

 

He may not have been able to self asess in that condition. No one could. Hypothermia, shock.

 

If there was an accident and he survived with little gear, but he had a cell phone, and he was injured with a concussion he may have had a hard time explaining his situation and relaying his position for rescue.

 

His explantion as to the whereabouts of his friends may indicate a concusion or head injury. Maybe he fell or something fell on him.

 

Even in winter when the snow keeps hood together a random rock/ice/snow fall could have been unavoidable and could have been the precursor problem if there was a subsequent fall.

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Many speculating about what happened aren't looking closely at the available info, at least as it's been reported. James called last Sunday. He was in a cave, near the summit, hurt (or "in trouble"), and his two teamates had gone for help.

 

The info you cite was from a phone call James made in which he seemed delirious, according to his family. It's possible some of what James said in that call was truthful, but it's also possible that none of what he said was.

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