scrambled_legs Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 I've been climbing with a lot of partners lately and just wondering what the most common way is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-spotter Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 I've been climbing with a lot of partners lately and just wondering what the most common way is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrambled_legs Posted September 22, 2006 Author Share Posted September 22, 2006 I guess you missed reading the whole "just wondering" part. I just found it a hassle when a few of the guys that I was climbing with wanted to switch all the draws around to face the same way because that was what they were used to. Then when I clipped the rope I kept forgetting and had the rope running over the gate. I was "just wondering" if there was a commonplace way, that way I could try and change my habits to get used to racking that way and clipping that way. It'd make it easier with these random partners. Before now I only climbed with a couple of guys and they all did it opposite to my new partners. Thanks for the taking the time to make a dumbass survey instead of simply selecting what you do moron. 3100 posts and still no life eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mos_Chillin Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 Don't mind our little Quibbler Elf, he is exactly that and as Douglas Adams once said "mostly harmless" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-spotter Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 It doesn't matter so your questions are irrelevant. It's like toilet paper rolling from the front or back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 I've been climbing with a lot of partners lately and just wondering what the most common way is. Question Number One matters if you are sport climbing (or clipping bolts). Your quick draws are set up wrong if the gates are not facing the same way. It doesn't matter if you are trad climbing or using alpine draws, because you can flip the biners if necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chirp Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-spotter Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 Your quick draws are set up wrong if the gates are not facing the same way. Â WRONG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mos_Chillin Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 Â Happiness is a quickdraw carelessly thrown over your shoulder... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spotly Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 I don't really think it matters. If there's a real reason to have em one way or another, I'm all ears. As far as my climbing partner changing my biners from how I have them, I don't think I'd like that. We can come to a mutual agreement on the rack and draws before the climb though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spotly Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 I don't really think it matters. If there's a real reason to have em one way or another, I'm all ears. As far as my climbing partner changing my biners from how I have them, I don't think I'd like that. We can come to a mutual agreement on the rack and draws before the climb though. TP...now that DOES matter! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 Your quick draws are set up wrong if the gates are not facing the same way. Â WRONG Dru, do it your own way. I'm just telling people the right way to do it. Don't confuse them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-spotter Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 The ONLY thing that matters is the way the bottom biner faces. And then only on climbs that traverse significantly - not on straight up climbs. Â The way the top biner faces is irrelevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 That is NOT true. You assume that the draw can rotate freely relative to the carabiner but that isn't always what happens. If the gate is facing in your direction of travel, it can rotate in such a manner that the gate come in contact with either the rock or the bolt itself. Â If you are willing to rotate your top carabiner after placing the draw, then it doesn't matter, but in any case you want the gate facing away from the direction of travel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-spotter Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 BULLSHIT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 Your quick draws are set up wrong if the gates are not facing the same way. Â WRONG Dru, do it your own way. I'm just telling people the right way to do it. Don't confuse them. didya learn this at mountieU? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 There is not unanimous agreement on this point. You will find plenty of good climbers who face the biners away for convenience of clipping. Having said that, most manufacturers including Black Diamond, ship their draws with the biners facing the same way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Choada_Boy Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 I face my biners the same way so that they can stare each other down, then I discard the loser. I only want the best gear on my rack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-spotter Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 Hey CBS, take a look in ANAM. Take a look in the UIAA European accident reports. Â You will find documented cases of people who were killed or injured because of back clipping. You will find documented cases of people who were died or injured because of cliping biner to biner. You will find cases of people who were killed or injured as a result of the biner gate crossloading when a Figure 8 was used. Â But you WILL NOT find any examples of anyone being killed or injured because their top gate didn't face the bottom gate. Â If you can find any documented examples of this in the climbing accident analysis media, I will freely admit that you are right and I am wrong. But I won't have to cause you can't! It is a NON ISSUE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 Assuming you are right about the accident journals, and I am not conceding that yet until I check, there is a very good reason why an unclipped draw would not result in death on a sport route and that is because typically there is another bolt only 5 feet below the first. Â I happen to disagree with your premise that a person must die before climbers decide to make improvements to the way they do things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrambled_legs Posted September 22, 2006 Author Share Posted September 22, 2006 Well I didn't start this to bring up a safety issue about the top biner. Up until now I thought it was only the bottom biner that mattered, interesting thought though. Not to sidetrack the thread but that might be related to another issue with solid vs. wire gates. When you fall with a solid gate biner it often hits the rock and if it hits in a certain way the weight of the gate can cause it to pop open slightly. It's not a danger of the rope escaping but it does change the strength of the biner from closed to open. A wire gate doesn't have enough weight to cause it to open. Try taking a tired solid gate biner and tap it on the rock with the gate facing up. You can hear the click of the biner hitting the rock and the click of the gate opening and closing. Â The real reason I was asking is when I had my new partner switch the the gates to the same side, I kept messing up the clips. When I cliped the top biner I thought the bottom biner would be on the opposite side. I ended up having to reclip it or not realise it and climb with the rope over the gate. Â Also I would rack the gear with the gates in, he would rack it with the gates out so after the third pitch it was mixed match and you had to hang for that extra second while you tried to get the gear off. Â I was trying to see if there was a "normal" way of doing it so I wouldn't run into this problem with most new partners, but judging from the survey so far that doesn't seem to be so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 You should practice clipping the rope in both from right and left using either hand until you can do it quickly and efficiently no matter which way the gate faces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 fuck...you guys are morons...but i have to say that there was one case where i had a draw come completely unclipped w/o a fall once for me...the roof out on Kings of Rap has a bolt in the middle of the wall as you traverse out...the quickdraw "rolled" over the top of the bolt (a metolius ring bolt) and unclipped itself from just the pull of the rope as i pulled out and around the roof into the jug...This actually occurred *often* enough that its pretty well known with old generation smiff climbers. You can easily replicate it with those bolts at smith. Modern hangers are sloped enough that this is pretty impossible (unlikely) to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enelson Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 i just started leading sport and it seems way easier to clip the biner from outside in. so say i am clipping on my right side, i reach out with my right hand and clip the biner so that as it lies flat the gate is facing me. so CBS, you are saying this is a problem? now that i think about it it seem that as i climb up the whole QD could get pulled up rotating the biner in the bolt so that the gate may become loaded as it is pulled up and towards me to the right *(assuming i climb a straight line up to the right) is that what you are worried about? cause clipping so the biner faces out from the bolt hen hanging flat can be abitch sometimes. what are the thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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