SmallShoes Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 For those of you that only use a non gri-gri belay device that's like saying you only know how to use a manual vehicle verses an automatic vehicle. There's benefits to both. Using an ATC or other non-auto-locking device doesn't mean it's the only thing one knows how to use. Do you really think people who drive manuals have no idea how to drive an automatic? The reverse may be true, both with cars and with belay devices. Not to mention gri-gri's are not 100% failsafe - even in the manual Petzl tells you to pay attention and keep your hands on the rope. It's surprising how many people ignore that. I think someone posted a link about common mistakes in using a gri-gri but I can't find it. Not a big deal, just my 2 cents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 Hey, the real issue isn't the merit of the belay device, it's choice. People don't like to be told what to do or how to do it. Experienced climbers want to make their own choices, not have someone else make choices for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
counterfeitfake Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 I don't understand why anyone would care that you have to use grigris on the toprope routes. Do you just not feel hard enough when you're using a grigri? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 ...It's a shame that you only try something once and make an option based on one experience. Did you like broccoli as a kid? I didn't but I sure do like it now. Open up your minds and your body will follow. Â I guess I should try jabbing a pencil through my hand again. It wasn't much fun as a kid when I tried it the one and only time in my life, but I'm an adult now and it might be fun! Â Thanks TradBetty! try poking it through yer ear...it'll be more fun for us to watch that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 I don't understand why anyone would care that you have to use grigris on the toprope routes. Do you just not feel hard enough when you're using a grigri? Â listen...catturdeat is just pissed that the vw won't let him provide knot tying seminars for their members... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Phil Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 Not to mention gri-gri's are not 100% failsafe - even in the manual Petzl tells you to pay attention and keep your hands on the rope. It's surprising how many people ignore that. Â Watched a girl go splat while being lowered last night at VW. Her partner couldn't really come up with a good excuse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 Watched a girl go splat while being lowered last night at VW. Her partner couldn't really come up with a good excuse. Â That's cause there is no good excuse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underworld Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 Hey, the real issue isn't the merit of the belay device, it's choice. People don't like to be told what to do or how to do it. Experienced climbers want to make their own choices, not have someone else make choices for them. Â you're not being told what to do.... if you use a gri-gri at vw - it's because you CHOOSE to go there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayB Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 I liked stone gardens better for a lot of reasons. Mellower crowd, cooler vibe, better bouldering, and....the lead routes were never that crowded, and often empty, even during the busiest after-work megaclusters. Start off with the leading, wait 'til the bouldering mobile-cluster departs, then do a few problems. Great fun. Â UW rock in the summer, SG in the winter. Great combo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underworld Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 you guys have all let Chaps get to you.... gri-gri or atc... who the fq cares. do you go to the gym to belay? no - we all go there for the sports bras! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 Hey, the real issue isn't the merit of the belay device, it's choice. People don't like to be told what to do or how to do it. Experienced climbers want to make their own choices, not have someone else make choices for them.  you're not being told what to do.... if you use a gri-gri at vw - it's because you CHOOSE to go there. This is now getting into semantics. Enough. Another thing I wonder about is what will become of the carpet over foam at Cascade Crags? Will they rip it out and go back to gravel? I rather like the carpet, as it makes for a clean environment. It's good for top roping, but it sucks for bouldering. I dislike dragging crash pads around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donbcivil Posted September 14, 2006 Share Posted September 14, 2006 gri-gri or atc... who the fq cares. do you go to the gym to belay  Well...yeah.  Does anyone (other than lawyers) think that it's safer for newbies to learn with gri-gris, from a safety POV? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon Posted September 14, 2006 Share Posted September 14, 2006 It's too bad to hear that Cascade Crags ran into problems, Mike Palmer supported this site for a long time. Best of luck to him. People north of Seattle should just be thankful they still have a gym to go to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Phil Posted September 14, 2006 Share Posted September 14, 2006 Another thing I wonder about is what will become of the carpet over foam at Cascade Crags? Will they rip it out and go back to gravel? I rather like the carpet, as it makes for a clean environment. It's good for top roping, but it sucks for bouldering. I dislike dragging crash pads around. Â VW Seattle recently replaced the gravel with foam in the bouldering area, so probably not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Off_White Posted September 15, 2006 Share Posted September 15, 2006 knot tying seminars for their members... Â Oooh, penile bondage is so cutting edge! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kix Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 it would be nice if he at least replaced the shower lost in the Redmond remodel before buying other gyms. Â Please offer membership reductions until this is resolved. Â Take care of your existing membership before taking on more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 yeah...that kix character reeks after a good sesh...his daycare really doesn't like him coming around after a bouldering sesh... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kix Posted September 21, 2006 Share Posted September 21, 2006 peeps at the senior daycare place are a bit uptight and they only like to give the one sponge bath per day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted September 21, 2006 Share Posted September 21, 2006 There was a thread on RC.com in which Malcom Daly stated, Â "DO NOT, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE GIVE A CINCH, GRIGRI (ETC) TO A BEGINNER. " Â That's standard procedure at VW. Â http://www.rockclimbing.com/forums/viewt...w=&start=15 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underworld Posted September 21, 2006 Share Posted September 21, 2006 the other day at VW, some dude was complaining to his buddy about the gri-gris and how they are anchored to the ground instead of to the belayer. he was crying about how it isn't realistic to 'real' climbing. Â my first thought was that the gym isn't there to simulate real belaying or to teach noobs how to use a gri gri. the gym is for pulling on plastic and working moves/gaining strength. Â my second thought, as he was pointing out to his bud that some routes are all the same color holds while others are the same color tape... yet he had no problem w/ that being 'not realistic to the outdoors' Â the gym and their respective belay devices are what they are. you can't go AND complain. that's like complaining about your gas bill and driving an SUV... or just driving at all. Â 'climbing' in a gym is like 'hiking' on a treadmill. it's got it's roll, you should expect nothing more or less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Frieh Posted September 23, 2006 Share Posted September 23, 2006 (edited) I wish VW all the best in the new location... talking with the new owner yesterday it sounds like they have some awesome improvements in the works. Â Thanks to Mike Palmer for hosting the Ice Fest the past five years... too bad VW won't continue the tradition. Â And I promise the foam will get lots of use in its new home... thanks again! Â Edited September 23, 2006 by John Frieh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syklone Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 And I promise the foam will get lots of use in its new home... thanks again  In your garage John? You going to open John's Dry Tool Gym now? or put it up under a bridge? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Frieh Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 Likely something in the back yard... am looking into how hard it is to get rezoned as a church in PDX... Â Speaking of bridges... you available for some work? Email me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kix Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 please keep this thread on topic: Â the shower at redmond VW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpinemorg Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 There was a thread on RC.com in which Malcom Daly stated, Â "DO NOT, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE GIVE A CINCH, GRIGRI (ETC) TO A BEGINNER. " Â That's standard procedure at VW. Â Though it's understandable that on the surface it appears that way, it is NOT in fact 'standard procedure' to give a gri-gri to a beginner. Every time belaying is taught (Intro to climbing classes, Junior Program age 10-16, Little Rockers age 6-9, college school groups, lead clinics, etc...) it is taught no different than most other climbing gyms/companies are teaching belaying...with a locking carabiner and an ATC, using the proper hand motion and the brake hand ALWAYS being on the line (the last part the MAJOR emphasis). Â Further, anyone new to the gym who chooses not to take the class and wishes to simply take a standard belay test must also demonstrate their proficiency first with the ATC method, and THEN with the VW fixed anchor/Gri-gri set-up. Â Hope that helps shed some light on the methods. Â Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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