Jim Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 The latest round of violence in the middle east is going to end up solving, what exactly? So Hezbollah sneaks over the border, kills several soldiers and kidnapps two. In past similar situations Israel does a couple of air raids on training camps, says it will not negoiate, and they makes the back channel prisoner exchange. This time they hit the Palastian civilian infrastructure and now have bombed Lebanon back 25 years in infrastructure. Oh, and killed about 500 civilians - but that was the count by yesterday so is likely old. The point is what? Any damage done to Hezbollah will be masked by the number of new recruits they will get. Meanwhile the US is letting it's lap dog have at it, China and Russia are backing away from out position regarding a nuclear Iran, and the already weak Lebonese government will likely be voted out in the near future. Guess who will be voted in? Seems like this latest round is not going to solve anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weekend_Climberz Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 When I was younger, I used to read this book that talked about the same thing. Arabs and Jews fighting, blah, blah, blah, Meshack, Shadrack, and Abendigo in the fire, blah, blah, blah. Think it was called the Bibler or something like that. Now they make tents, but the fighting still rages on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chucK Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 I didn't follow the sequence of events closely due to being in Stehekin (no TV, internet, etc.) at the time, but aren't you leaving out the part about Hezbollah firing a bunch of rockets into Haifa? That seems like a significant escalation compared to previous clashes, that Israel just about must do something about, don't you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted August 2, 2006 Author Share Posted August 2, 2006 I wasn't selectively editing - I can't give you a blow by blow here. I don't thing the rocket firing started until the Israels started bombing civilian infrastructure in Palestine. While Israel certainly has the right to defend itself and is surrounded by a bunch of militant wackos, I don't see how this translates into the right to kill massive amounts of civilians (near 600 now vs the 18 in Israel)and employing a strategy of collective punishment. Their reaction is way overboard, and we're backing it. The strategy of slowly strangling the Palestinians wasn't working and that's how they ended up with Hammas in power. Now they've pounded the Palestinians and Lebanon, killed over 600 civilians, wounded over 2,000 civilians, caused over $2 billion in damages to homes, roads, power plants, etc., and made life miserable for a lot of folks not involved in the conflict. The result? Likely temporarily wounding Hezbollah and killing maybe 50-100 of the faithful. In the long term however they've just continued to pound innocent people and sowed the ground for Hezbollah recruits. The US strategy has always been to have Israel as our cop on the beat in the middle east. It's unfortunate that a people so stricken with a history of persecution choose to follow a ruthless policy towards civilians. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valleydude Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 Israel is doing us a huge favor by taking it to Hezbollah. Go Jews! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted August 2, 2006 Author Share Posted August 2, 2006 In general, that's the strategy, except you forgot to add.......no matter the innocent body count. Another Bushism - We've never seen a problem we can't solve with bombs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valleydude Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 Kill them all and let Allah sort them out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cj001f Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 Kill them all and let Allah sort them out. look! Redneckus Cascadia! notice the mating mullet and torn tshirt plumage! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valleydude Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 Yeah that's me brain. The difference between us and the Islamic Fascists is that we don't intentionally target civilians. Yes they get the raw deal being used as human shields by Hezbollah, but if they're not shooting at the Israelis then they're handing the Hezbollah guerrillas the ammo. I don't get off on seeing kids get it. The fighting-age men, too bad so sad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyHarry Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 The difference between us and the Islamic Fascists is that we don't intentionally target civilians. No, we just "accidently" target them. It plays better with the press. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cj001f Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 Yeah that's me brain. The difference between us and the Islamic Fascists is that we don't intentionally target civilians. Yes they get the raw deal being used as human shields by Hezbollah, but if they're not shooting at the Israelis then they're handing the Hezbollah guerrillas the ammo. I don't get off on seeing kids get it. The fighting-age men, too bad so sad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted August 2, 2006 Author Share Posted August 2, 2006 Recent Iraq civilian death estimates: between 39,000 and 44,000. But we didn't mean it. http://www.iraqbodycount.net/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cj001f Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 Recent Iraq civilian death estimates: between 39,000 and 44,000. But we didn't mean it. http://www.iraqbodycount.net/ Dude, those are Iragi's, not people (btw palestinians aren't people either). Fucking liberals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashw_justin Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 "All we have to do is get the United States to get Israel to stop this shit." two sides to every coin... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenfork Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 Not to sound cold, but I don't really understand why people get so upset at the "civilian" death count (use of quotes intended). Israel is at war, they have a right to defend themselves. If you were attacked, would you not defend yourself if you couldn't do it w/o killing innocents on the other side? If the terrorists can use innocents as human shields, and result in world opinion going against Israel, and pressure on Israel to stop the fighting, then they will have won. The main problem with the civilian deaths is that it is being used by the terrorists to drum up support for their cause. Unfortunately, no one has yet figured out how to eliminate terrorists without the side-effect of radicalizing even more people (appeasing them certainly doesn't work). Israel may be right in what they're doing if they can successfully eliminate Hezbollah as a military force. However, if they fail to do so, then yikes... good luck to them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
selkirk Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 Kill them all and let Allah sort them out. Then you'd better be thorough. Seeing as no one is going to be left we might as well start dropping nukes. I have yet to see anyone with the stomach to actually do this, but I think it's been shown again and again that when fighting a a war against a resistance drawn from the entire local population, 1/2 measures dont' cut it. Israel's done a pretty good job of showing that killing 50% of them only pisses off the other 50% and you end up with the same number of suicide bombers and terrorists. So sure, keep blowing them..... It's done a bang up job of achieving peace in that area so far. I'm sure more and bigger bombs will scare them into settling down Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cj001f Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 Not to sound cold, but I don't really understand why people got so upset at the "civilian" death count during 9/11 (use of quotes intended). Islam is at war, we have a right to defend ourselves. If you were attacked, would you not defend yourself? sure mr. bin ladin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenfork Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 What's that supposed to mean cj001f? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cj001f Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 What's that supposed to mean cj001f? I'm not at all surprised you don't get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenfork Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 Ahh, cj001f, you got it all figured out eh? Why don't you post something with content, instead of just a bunch of emoticons. What do you do when you're debating someone in person? Just stand there and roll your eyes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayB Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 I don't think that Israel's tactics have been especially wise, and if their objective was to deny Hezbollah's ability to use Southern Lebanon as a staging area, I think they would have been better served by undertaking a massive ground invasion by now. Whether or not that'll succeed is an open question, and there's clearly the potential to make things worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slothrop Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 It's been too long since the we've seen a massive ground invasion. Israel should just roll straight into Damascus, link up with the 4th ID in Baghdad, and plow right into Tehran. If you're going to escalate, go straight to the top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cj001f Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 Ahh, cj001f, you got it all figured out eh? Why don't you post something with content, instead of just a bunch of emoticons. What do you do when you're debating someone in person? Just stand there and roll your eyes? What's the point of debating? The positions don't change and neither of us have anything interesting or insightful to say. We could be just as well served bashing our brains in on the field or comparing carburetors as typing trite tomes. Not that different from the conflict being discussed, except for the retarded american who thinks saying shits broken requires you to fix it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valleydude Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 What's that supposed to mean cj001f? I'm not at all surprised you don't get it. All there is to get is this: Islamic Fascists want nothing more than to convert everyone, eriadicate freedom of religion and speech, put the women in burhkas, and basically roll the clock back about 2000 years or so, or kill you if you aren't down with that idea. But we have nothing to fear until they start busting into Jewish community centers and gunning down women here in the US...oh wait. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaskadskyjKozak Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 Israel is bombing Lebanon? Isn't that a norm rather than an exception in the last 50 years of history? Plus ca change... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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