scott Posted February 25, 2006 Share Posted February 25, 2006 ok - so what are the rules on machine bolting in national forest land - wilderness area. i assume hand bolts only? and save me the lecture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Off_White Posted February 25, 2006 Share Posted February 25, 2006 Yes, wilderness area = hand drilling. If it's just national forest, machine drilling is allowed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bug Posted February 25, 2006 Share Posted February 25, 2006 Don't worry about the lecture. They banned all the anti- bolting guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mos_Chillin Posted February 25, 2006 Share Posted February 25, 2006 Conversely, all the banning guys bolted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
111 Posted February 26, 2006 Share Posted February 26, 2006 (edited) you shouldnt bolt in a wilderness area!!!!! "An area of wilderness is further defined to mean in this chapter an area of underdeveloped Federal land retaining its primeval character and influence, without permanent improvements or human habitation, which is protected and managed so as to preserve its natural conditions..." Emphasis on "permanent improvements". dont get me wrong, I would love to see bomber 2 bolt belays in wilderness areas but it goes against the most basic ethic that created wildernesses in the first place. Have at thee CCcommers! Edited February 26, 2006 by 111 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalius Posted February 26, 2006 Share Posted February 26, 2006 Feel free to bolt in wilderness areas. Just no power drills. Must tap tap tap, turn turn turn. Repeat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott Posted February 26, 2006 Author Share Posted February 26, 2006 thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bug Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 If Larry the Tool heads your way, eat your bolt kit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mos_Chillin Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephH Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 Wilderness Area = No drilling. That's why they call it "wilderness" area and not a "please f#ck this up" area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mos_Chillin Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 Yeah, that's the Government's job, and it hates competition Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Off_White Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 Wilderness Area = No drilling. That's why they call it "wilderness" area and not a "please f#ck this up" area. That's your ethical standpoint, I believe the question was about legality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dechristo Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 "This land has your bolts this land has my bolts from California to the New York island from the redwood forests to the gulfstream waters This land has bolts from you and me." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephH Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 And what is the current law (please cite a link) for fixed anchors in designated wilderness? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elaine Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 No lecture here. Like the others have mentioned, you can bolt in wilderness, just no power drilling. It's supposed to be done by hand. There is a link from the Access Fund's webpage about the support of fixed anchors in wilderness, and that consideration for the use and placement of fixed protection should be done on an area-by-area basis. http://www.accessfund.org/pdf/FA_letter_12-3-03.pdf From talking with different land managers, it is an issue that has not been ultimately resolved. It's not a matter of can vs can't, it's just how they get placed for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 For those contemplating putting up new routes or crags, an equally important consideration, often overlooked, is trail building. Land mangers or property owners are often upset by the development of user-built trails. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurthicks Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 Land mangers or property owners are often upset by the development of user-built trails. This is the problem with Infinite Bliss. The bolts were not the concern for the USFS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Frieh Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 Scott: depends on where you are. The AAC has good info: Wilderness Fixed Anchor Chronology Basically what others said: no power tools but legal except in the Sawtooths. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 If you install a via ferrata by hand, is it OK then? Or does that qualify as a trail? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 It wasn't quite that simple, Wazzu. There were certainly some in the Forest Service who DID have a problem with the bolts but the trail was at least as significant a concern and in a real way more so. Management plans do not allow for trailbuilding, but the rangers noted that trails are proliferating all over the place so that, for example, there is barely a lake anywhere that doesn't have a trail to it. The user built trail on nearby Mailbox Peak, too, was a big issue for them. In addition to the trail and the power tool issue, there was also the concern for the prospect that the climb might draw concentrated use by a new user group in a new area. Previously, that face had seen a handful of ascents in twenty years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurthicks Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 except in the Sawtooths. where no fixed anchors are legal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony_Bentley Posted March 4, 2006 Share Posted March 4, 2006 Feel free to bolt in wilderness areas. Just no power drills. Must tap tap tap, turn turn turn. Repeat. Something like that. I think there are more taps though. It takes 10 minutes to drill into granite with a 5/16 Hilte and an Eastman rock tool once you become proficient. I wonder who has blatantly broken the laws here in the Cascades? So far I only know of one climber who has passed into the grey area of power drilling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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