W Posted May 10, 2001 Share Posted May 10, 2001 I'll give you something a little more productive: The ice cliff itself presents a serious rock and icefall hazard, but early in the season it is a little safer. Large crevasses split the glacier by mid June, maybe earlier. I haven't done this route proper, but climbed over the north ridge and downclimbed a steep snow couloir to gain the upper ice cliff glacier enroute to girth pillar. 2 things are worth mentioning: this was in mid June, and the slabs next to the great gendarme on the north ridge were holding a lot of winter snow and ice, which began falling regularly as soon as the sun hit it. The upper cirque of the glacier is very dangerous as a result. Also, the bergschrund was huge and, at that time, unpassable below the couloir. It was 30 feet across and presented about a 35 foot overhanging wall of snow-ice. We had to climb onto the rock about 200 feet right, into a difficult, 3 pitch corner system. This led us eventually to the normal ramp and put us back on route; however, for the ice cliff glacier route, I think you would have to rappel down this chossy, shattered ramp to regain the main ice cliff couloir by this time,and probably would lose some gear. Go as early as you can to avoid this schrund problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott Posted May 10, 2001 Author Share Posted May 10, 2001 ' [This message has been edited by scott (edited 05-30-2001).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jblakley Posted May 10, 2001 Share Posted May 10, 2001 Ladies and Gentlemen, The master of ambiguous beta..the one the only..ScottP. Actually that gives me a cool idea for a whole new genre of guide books. The Ambiguous Series. For example "To gain summit leave parking lot and head towards large snowy thing in a generally upwards direction going back and forth a lot on the way". On second thought that series has already been written...The Cascade Beckey guides...LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoker Posted May 10, 2001 Share Posted May 10, 2001 Originally posted by scott: have you climbed this route? Yes what are the objective hazards? Falling, falling rocks, falling ice, falling seracs, falling cornices, falling into crevasses, moats and avalanch at certain times. can it be done in two days in early season? Probably, but I took 3, and had fun doing so. what are snow conditions like back there? avalanches? Haven't been into the Stuart range yet this year so I don't know. thanks No problem. Here is the link to the TR that I posted here a while back. http://www.cascadeclimbers.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/000008.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottP Posted May 10, 2001 Share Posted May 10, 2001 "Scott" wrote: thanks w. scott p- ooh look, you made a witty! clever, clever! Actually Scott, the purpose of my post was to make a point about the general nature of your request: You ask about objective hazards on an alpine route. How much more detailed can one get than stuff falls on you or you fall into stuff? (I didn't mention possible weather hazards or any of a number of the other objective hazards that might be encountered when doing any alpine route.) You ask about snow conditions and avalanches as if these were static things. It is a glacier for god's sake; changes occur quickly. You ask if it can be done in two days: depends on your physical condition and route conditions, both of which nobody else is absolutely sure of. You asked for generalities and I gave you generalities. Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Posted May 10, 2001 Share Posted May 10, 2001 You guys need to get out more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottP Posted May 10, 2001 Share Posted May 10, 2001 Charlie wrote: >You guys need to get out more You've got that right... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott Posted May 10, 2001 Author Share Posted May 10, 2001 well, you can mention how you might be able to avoid such stuff falling on your bean. snow conditions do change! has anyone found soft, wet snow or has this week of mostly sunny skies firmed things up a bit? what about those bergschrund problems? have the recent warm temps caused lots of large slides? ok- is it really pushing it to do it in two days? i have to be back at work on monday. i'm somewhere between speedy gonzales and the turtle who won the race. conceptualize "average" and let me know- i'll decide whether or not i'm average. in any case- contrast your response with the others- can you see any difference? just how specific should the questions be? [This message has been edited by scott (edited 05-10-2001).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verticalturtle Posted May 10, 2001 Share Posted May 10, 2001 between speedy gonzales and the turtle who won the race You weren't refering to me were you? Gosh I didn't even know I entered. BTW I may see you if you are there next weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pope Posted May 11, 2001 Share Posted May 11, 2001 You know, back in the dark ages, before the Genesis of this mountaineering bulletin board/chat room/CB radio of the 1990's, one would have to go into the mountains in order to assess the conditions of a winter climb. Back then, you couldn't just go "on line" and chat with climbers who could give useful information based on recent experience. Little has changed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottP Posted May 11, 2001 Share Posted May 11, 2001 Come on Scott, you weren't asking for beta, you were asking for a forecast. My point being that if you want useful beta, ask questions more specific than "what are the objective hazards?", "what are snow conditions like back there?" and the painfully vague "avalanches?" >in any case- contrast your response with the >others- can you see any difference? The post by "W" right after mine... look closely and you'll see many similarities. He just used more words. >just how specific should the questions be? Specific enough that someone like me won't have fuel to burn you with. Something more like, "Is there any entrance onto the glacier that is better than any other to avoid getting chopped by falling stuff?" or, as you asked on your second attempt, " 'has anyone found soft, wet snow' recently?" Then there is always the time-tested method of walking in there to see if the route is in condition, and, if it isn't, have a secondary objective in mind. ps >has anyone found soft, wet snow or has this week of mostly sunny skies firmed things up a bit? have the recent warm temps caused lots of large slides? IS there something a tad contradictory in these two sentences? (insert winkysmiley here) Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott Posted May 11, 2001 Author Share Posted May 11, 2001 - [This message has been edited by scott (edited 05-30-2001).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottP Posted May 11, 2001 Share Posted May 11, 2001 >have you climbed this route? No. >what are the objective hazards? Falling rock, falling ice, hidden crevasses, gravity. >can it be done in two days in early season? Depends >what are snow conditions like back there? Cold, wet, white. >avalanches? Probably  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott Posted May 11, 2001 Author Share Posted May 11, 2001 666 [This message has been edited by scott (edited 05-30-2001).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Caveman Posted May 11, 2001 Share Posted May 11, 2001 Fire it up guys! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottP Posted May 11, 2001 Share Posted May 11, 2001 Scott, I imagined you'd take a hint and some constructive criticism and learn from it rather than getting your drawers in a bunch. I posted a response for just that reason. Nothing macho about it. Goodbye. Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott Posted May 11, 2001 Author Share Posted May 11, 2001 666 [This message has been edited by scott (edited 05-30-2001).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jblakley Posted May 11, 2001 Share Posted May 11, 2001 I think someone needs a hug. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Caveman Posted May 11, 2001 Share Posted May 11, 2001 What pals this site makes all the time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott Posted June 4, 2001 Author Share Posted June 4, 2001 the answer is yes, it can be comfortably done in two days, but it helps to know the approach. the snow conditions were excellent- very good neve. the schrund just under the upper coulior is passable. the sherpa glacier descent will likely become more difficult as it seems to be icing up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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