Seattle voters

[Alpinfox]

I'm just curious:

[Alpinfox]

 

So do you folks who voted for 901 have any justification for your decision besides, "I don't like cigarette smoke"?

 

It's sad that many people vote based on what is convenient/comfortable for them rather than on principles.

[olyclimber]

That measure is pretty harsh on smokers as far as where they can smoke...must be 300 yards from any known life form, etc. I fully support legalized suicide, and furthermore, taxing the hell out of those killing themselves. I'm concerned that this will result in less people smoking and thus less taxes raised.

[minx]

hopefully the offset in taxes will come from a decrease in the healthcare costs associated with smoking.

 

i voted for it b/c i'd like to be able to go more places

[JoshK]

So do you folks who voted for 901 have any justification for your decision besides, "I don't like cigarette smoke"?

 

It's sad that many people vote based on what is convenient/comfortable for them rather than on principles.

 

Is it convenient/comfortable to not have to breath in noxious smoke? It's a health issue - just like lead paint or asbestos.

 

The financial argument is beyond bullshit. You can't smoke in bars/restaurants here in Boulder and every place is always packed. Considering that a ton of people I know here smoke yet cope without being able to do it in public I don't think it is "hurting the restaurant owners."

[Greta]

Thank you Minx. Smoking can be linked as a risk factor for most if not all of the high cost health care expenditures including cardiovascular disease and a variety of cancers, which interplays as a co-morbidity with many others such as diabetes, obesity, etc. If people quit smoking, its quite possible that our health care woes would resolve. I support this

[griz]

I personaly enjoy it when someone feels they have the right to blow smoke my way have my $50 steak dinner taste like an ashtray.

 

I also like when I spend the weekend in jail and bubba doesn't use the ass lube.

[chucK]

I didn't vote for this initiative because I'd like to support personal freedoms, but when I was conjuring up my post on how this law is so terrible I thought of these points...

 

Do you support the laws that prohibit drinking and driving?

 

How about dog leash laws?

 

"They" have shown second-hand smoke is hazardous to a person's health. If you believe those studies, then I think Pax's principle he wishes to stand on would also invalidate the above two laws.

 

Tyranny of the majority (easy to take away someone else's rights)? Perhaps, but there is some validity toward people wanting to protect themselves from others' reckless behaviors.

 

On the other hand, I really don't like Greta's logic that we have to remove other peoples' rights in order to help them live long lives, so that we will have less medical expenses. By that logic we should be prohibiting alcohol, scuba diving, swimming pools... the list could go on.

 

This is the only worry I would have about socialized medicine. Worry-warts might start using the perceived excess burden added to the common healthcare system as an argument to prohibit any voluntary activity that they deem unworthy. Soon any risky activity that only a minority partakes in would have a good chance of being prohibited.

[Off_White]

I've got no problems with banning smoking in bars and bowling alleys, my hesitation is that 25' from a door or window rule. I think that the Stranger's op-ed piece about how it will be used as a harrasment tool for only particular establishments is likely right on the money. Wanna bet that smoking too close to the door of some hip hop club is more likely to be enforced (with potential liquor license loss) than some establishment steak house/bar? Seattle cops already do too much selective enforcement, they didn't need to be handed another bludgeon.

[cj001f]

Funny to hear people bitch about smoke when they are drinking alcohol.

[underworld]

if you go to a smokey bar - you can't complain. whether you knew it or not, you decided that the music/beer/company/etc. is worth the health risk or the odor. we are rational beings.

[marylou]

I think banning smoking in bars (and the ridiculous 25' rule) is going to have the reverse effect for a while. I was in Toronto shortly after they did a similar smoking ban and people were smoking everywhere, including the former non-smoking sections of restaurants.

[Jim]

Seattle public health officials already said they will not be running around the city with calk and a tape measure. It wasn't their proposal. The idea was to just keep folks away from doors and windows that vent into the establishment. New York has a very strict non-smoking rule and there were gloom and doom predictions and pffft - no big deal, just as it will be here.

 

That said - being a non-smoker, it wasn't such a big deal to me but I voted for it. It will be healthier for folks that work in these places.

 

Also looks like the gas tax repeal is losing ground - the no vote is ahead 53% to 47%. Common sense may finally be prevailing.

Edited November 9, 2005 by Jim

[catbirdseat]

It should be pointed out that the measure allows exemptions from the 25 foot rule for establishments that can prove that smoke from designated smoking areas will not be carried into the interior areas.

[EWolfe]

[archenemy]

Hellmet

 

that's funny.

[JayB]

"This is the only worry I would have about socialized medicine. Worry-warts might start using the perceived excess burden added to the common healthcare system as an argument to prohibit any voluntary activity that they deem unworthy. Soon any risky activity that only a minority partakes in would have a good chance of being prohibited."

 

We're already there - mandatory helmet laws.

 

Interesting side note - heard somewhere that groups associated with organ transfers usually oppose these measures when they come up for a vote. Strange bedfellows.

[olyclimber]

JayB, and what about manadatory seatbelt laws? But these aren't laws that prohibit you from driving or riding a motorcycle....just doing so without belting or helmeting up. In climbing, the law would require you to only bolt on rappel and use a grigri to belay.

[Dru]

Funny to hear people bitch about smoke when they are drinking alcohol.

 

moderate alcohol consumption has proven health benefits

[JayB]

JayB, and what about manadatory seatbelt laws? But these aren't laws that prohibit you from driving or riding a motorcycle....just doing so without belting or helmeting up. In climbing, the law would require you to only bolt on rappel and use a grigri to belay.

 

I'm not opposed to helmet and seatbelt laws - just brought them up to illustrate a point.

 

The reason I brought up motorcycles is that they generate a significant number of brain injuries in young men who become a multi-decade responsibility for the state. My understanding was that here especially the argument was - if you crash and become disabled, your care is most likely going to be on the state's dime, so the state is justified in restricting your ability to ride without a helmet.

 

I could be totally off base here, but I got the sense that most legislatures looked at seat-belts for drivers and helmets for motorcyclists in a slightly different manner, and the link between the authority to regulate behavior and financial liability was a bit more explicit in the case of the motorcyclists.

 

IMO there's no reason in principle why this couldn't be applied to climbers as well, the demographics are largely the same and the risk of a permanently debilitating brain injury are probably just as high - except for the fact that in the case of climbers it would be impossible to enforce. There's also the fact that climbers are a lower profile group.

[Peter_Puget]

somewhat related

[Dave_Schuldt]

The smoking ban is great! I wont have to take a shower when I get home frome Pub Club. Taking a shower late at night is a bummer in a group house.

[EWolfe]

Funny to hear people bitch about smoke when they are drinking alcohol.

 

moderate alcohol consumption has proven health benefits

 

Taking those last 10 years of your life off by smoking has been shown to be beneficial to others if you become a curmudgeonly old bastard.

[ChrisG]

I find children in restaurants annoying. Sitting next to a crying baby on an airplane raises my blood pressure, placing me at risk for heart attack. When can we vote to end these problems?

 

The idea that exposure to second-hand smoke for 2-3 hours every week harms your health is bullshit.

 

I thought it was terrorists that wanted to end freedoms in America.

[marylou]

I find children in restaurants annoying. Sitting next to a crying baby on an airplane raises my blood pressure, placing me at risk for heart attack. When can we vote to end these problems?

 

The idea that exposure to second-hand smoke for 2-3 hours every week harms your health is bullshit.

 

I thought it was terrorists that wanted to end freedoms in America.

 

I too find the screaming baby to be really annoying. I would also like to ban cell phones in places I find tranquility because when I'm finding said tranquility, I don't care about your life. If you get me involved in your life via your cell phone conversation, I'm sure it raises my cholesterol level or somesuch. In any case, your cell phone use in places I don't want to see or hear it are really ANNOYING.

 

I guess we need to have an initiative to iron this out since the legislators are probably trying to figure out the transit and tax base evisceration problems and may not have time to deal with my petty bullshit request.