catbirdseat Posted October 24, 2005 Share Posted October 24, 2005 These two routes share the same anchor up top. The last five times I've been to Sunshine Wall and approached Pony Keg with intention of leading it there have been sportos on Ripsaw. Even if you build your own anchor up top, oldschool style you still have someone only four feet away from you and that can be unnerving. I couldn't take it anymore and went up there and said, "excuse me, I'm leading Pony Keg, I hope you don't mind". About the time I was ready to go, they had pulled their rope and were clearing out. Now I understand the reason why Whipsaw was chopped three times. When I first heard about it by reading it in Yoder's guidebook, I thought, how dare they, the cad's!. Now I think, yes, I can see how someone could get pissed off when they can't get on one of the best trad lines at the Coulee- one for which the FA predated Ripsaw. I'm not saying I'd do such a thing as chopping a route, but that I can see both sides of the issue now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCash Posted October 24, 2005 Share Posted October 24, 2005 They should atleast put the bolts on the right side of the arete so someone else's rope isn't 1 foot away from your right foot while you're on Pony Keg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted October 24, 2005 Author Share Posted October 24, 2005 Photo of Air Guitar which also shows Pony Keg and part of Whipsaw on the right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted October 24, 2005 Share Posted October 24, 2005 Kevin Pogue has publicly stated, I think on this board and elsewhere, that if he had it to do over again he would bolt the other side of the Whipsaw arete. At this point, however, it is what it is (or has become), and I have only partial sympathy for Catbird's complaint. There are lots of climbs out there and I do not see why - if that is what he is saying - he had any right to expect that somebody forego Whipsaw when he wants to climb Pony Keg. At least not to the extent that he would have been justified in being righteous about it. If he didn't want this problem, he could have chosen another climb. Of course, I wasn't there and maybe Catbird was in fact more gracious about it than what I gathered from his post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted October 24, 2005 Author Share Posted October 24, 2005 We were in no way impolite. The other climbers were finished climbing the route. On the other hand, had we not been there they might well have offered it up as a top rope to other climbers. If Kevin really felt that way, why did he not do that after the route was chopped the first time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted October 24, 2005 Share Posted October 24, 2005 I don't think I would favor moving an entire string of ten bolts or whatever to the other side of the collumn - certainly not now when there remain the old chopped ones. Maybe after the first time it was pulled he could have acquiesced, but I'm afraid it becamse an unfortunate pissing match and I think both parties would admit they didn't do everything right. I like Pony Keg, by the way, and I've climbed it several times without having any serious conflict with climbers on Whipsaw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted October 24, 2005 Author Share Posted October 24, 2005 I agree, Pony Keg is a nice route. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted October 24, 2005 Share Posted October 24, 2005 Funny twist here, too is the Bill Robbins connection. I am told that the second time or third time the route was "chopped," the chopper couldn't pull the 1/2 inch bolts so instead he flattened the hangers. Then they were bent back out so they would be useable but Bill Robbins - another one of the trad warriors very vocal about how sport climbing was trashing the coulee - thought this was unsafe and went out there and replaced the hangers. As much as he didn't like the sport climbing explosion out there, he thought twice-bent hangers were dangerous and didn't want to see climbers using them that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingkiwi1 Posted October 24, 2005 Share Posted October 24, 2005 Both climbs are superb intros to their respective types of climbing. Granted, they'd interfere less with each other if the Whipsaw bolts were on the other side. But, for the newbie leader who's interested in trad (but doesn't have a rack yet) and can lead Whipsaw, getting a rope up there provides a welcome and rare opportunity to get a feel for the kind of jamming you do on Pony Keg. I remember being pretty happy to take a few rides on PK before moving on to Air Guitar, George and Martha, and others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted October 24, 2005 Author Share Posted October 24, 2005 The more I learn about Bill Robins the more I realize that he was a complex personality. There were so many dichotomies to his behavior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slaphappy Posted October 24, 2005 Share Posted October 24, 2005 Whipsaw was "chopped" by more than one party... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCash Posted October 25, 2005 Share Posted October 25, 2005 The best part about climbing at Vantage on a day when it is raining in Seattle is that you get a true wilderness experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrogdortheBurninator Posted October 25, 2005 Share Posted October 25, 2005 Is this another one of those regressive shark vs bear threads? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drater Posted October 25, 2005 Share Posted October 25, 2005 Wow. Imagine if there was a place somewhat close, just as dry, just as warm, with steep solid rock on over 500 routes and thousands of boulder problems. And no scene. Now that would be cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra_Commander Posted October 25, 2005 Share Posted October 25, 2005 That looks just charming. Get your hand off my holds! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted October 25, 2005 Share Posted October 25, 2005 In the gym they solve this problem with tape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra_Commander Posted October 25, 2005 Share Posted October 25, 2005 They tape the teetering columns together. Nothing more appealing than climbing unadulterated offwidth with crowds around you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted October 25, 2005 Share Posted October 25, 2005 They should tape the whole area off limits due to choss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted October 25, 2005 Author Share Posted October 25, 2005 Wow. Imagine if there was a place somewhat close, just as dry, just as warm, with steep solid rock on over 500 routes and thousands of boulder problems. And no scene. Now that would be cool. All depends on your definition of "somewhat close". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted October 25, 2005 Share Posted October 25, 2005 Here's a shot of Whipsaw, from Kevin Pogue's collection. Pony Keg is the crack immediately to the climber's left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drater Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 Wow. Imagine if there was a place somewhat close, just as dry, just as warm, with steep solid rock on over 500 routes and thousands of boulder problems. And no scene. Now that would be cool. All depends on your definition of "somewhat close". Two hours. But only an hour longer trip for most of the 206NATION. Or 360. Or 425. Or whatever fuckin new area codes you're rolling in Seatropolis this fine day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCash Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 So how many quality 5.8 to 5.10+ cracks are there in the Okanogan and Onion Creek areas? (I assume that is what you are talking about) Where can I get some beta for that area? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted October 29, 2005 Author Share Posted October 29, 2005 That's the problem with that area. There's some good climbing but you have to know someone to find it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drater Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 So how many quality 5.8 to 5.10+ cracks are there in the Okanogan and Onion Creek areas? (I assume that is what you are talking about) Where can I get some beta for that area? Onion Creek having cracks is news to me, I would have thought that whole area limestone and therefore sport rigged. As for the Okanogan, I'm not real good with numbers but I'm fairly sure I can't count that high. As for beta, one must bring a sacrificial virgin, of either gender to the rituals and only then will your request be considered. Or you could grab your rack and go exploring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drater Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 That's the problem with that area. There's some good climbing but you have to know someone to find it. I know it. Those 600' walls in plain view from the hwy are so difficult to find. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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