matt_m Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 Planning on heading up there the next few weekends as the fall gets its groove on. Last and only time I was up there (last year) I remember that a lot of the fixed hardware was in dire need of replacement. (Scary rusty 1/4in on Yellow Bird come to mind). A conversation I had at index recently also indicated there was a lot of old stuff up there that could use some replacement. Now, before I go lugging the equipment up there I wanted to get peoples thoughts on what needs upkeep and replacement. Routes? Bolts? Anchors? Rap Stations? Want to keep a great area from falling to the wayside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimL Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 I don´t remember anything on Yellowbird that couldn´t be led with modern gear. Maybe replace the top rap anchor, if I remember correctly it was kinda nasty. The Dagaba System is in some serious need of all of it´s hardware replaced. I´m sure if someone did this, it would be an awesome route that would get done more often. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatswaller Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 (edited) I've been wanting to do this for years.I will provide the bolts and hangers. Edited October 3, 2005 by fatswaller Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rat Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 replacing existing bolts, fine. adding rap stations or bolts to existing routes, no way. do not turn this area into another "no time" rock---fat lot of good jim and marlene's sign and trail did to popularize those trash routes. the hordes must of gotten lost after the sign disappeared. Â my incomplete recollection: yellow bird---haven't done it in a long while but remember that the bolts were sketchy. but if tim says it's safe with modern gear, i would say leave them alone. black widow---sketchy bolts but modern pro works. leave the bolts alone. easter overhang---there might be an old bolt above the overhang but it is redundant. leave it alone. rotc area---i didn't think the bolts in this area were bad. jam session---the one or two bolts on this one could be checked. the flame---the last belay bolts were replaced when someone added a rap route to the hard crack climb below it. the bolt shortly above the last belay is older but still decent. south ramp---the "offwidth" is actually more of a fist crack and protects adequately with modern gear to 5". leave the bolts alone. can't comment on dagaba system or stevens pass motel since i will likely never be able to climb them. Â so, that really doesn't give you much work to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatswaller Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 I would start with yellow bird and jam session. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pope Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 .. adding rap stations or bolts to existing routes, no way. Â Exactly. Â Â Â Â ..easter overhang---there might be an old bolt above the overhang but it is redundant. leave it alone... Â Don't remember a bolt in that chimney. There is/was a very solid bong at the lip of the roof. Â Midnight rock has offered one of the very best experiences available to Leavenworth climbers for decades. In addition to steep cracks and nice exposure, the arduous hike and lack of bolts nearly guarantee solitude on some of the best rock in Leavenworth. Please don't disturb the equation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulreaper Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 Speaking only from my limited experience on a few routes up there this past month: Â -The bolts on Yellow Bird are total relics. If they are indeed superfluous, do they have any value being there, sentimental or otherwise? Â There is no rap anchor directly above Yellow Bird; however, there is one 20 ft. to the left on the finishing ledge. Both bolts are decent (confirming this would be a good idea, maybe), while the mass of slings could probably be cleaned and replaced (chains? I don't know.) Â -The bolts on Steven's Pass Motel (2 in the first part) are old buttonheads with the shitty thin brassy SMC hangers; replacing them might be good, although they are placed among rather fragile flakes (handholds) so it probably would require care. Â I applaud your intentions. That crag is awesome and any replacing/cleanup of old mank is always a good idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimL Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 If your willing to spend the time, it would be a service to the community to carefully pull the bolts on Yellow Bird and hide the holes. I don´t remember Easter Overhang having any bolts, but if it does, they are not needed. Also, no need for a rap station above Easter Overhang, you can traverse over to the ROTC anchors and rap with a single 60. The climb that would benifit the most is the Dagaba System. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rat Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 in response to pope, Â i didn't notice a bolt on easter overhang a couple weeks ago but my friend thought there was one shown in the instruction manual. the pin you mention might be the "bolt". it is still there and is a-ok. the first belay is solid pins plus nuts. no bolts needed. Â to clarify, jam session bolt(s) can definitely use some attention since they can't be backed up with modern gear as i recall. Â as far as leaving old bolts in place....i like seeing those aluminum pop-top hangers. they make me thirst for cheap grape soda. however, pull 'em and reuse the holes if the bolts truly need replacing. Â enough... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt_m Posted October 4, 2005 Author Share Posted October 4, 2005 Ok - good info so far everyone - keep it coming. I want to put in some more time up there to "get a better feel" for the area before I do anything. All the info help point me in the right direction. Comment: Cleaning up old tat or replacing the SMC hangers is pretty straight forward. The suggestion of pulling and patching enters into tougher territory. What do people mean by "can be protected with modern gear". If they mean you can slam a bomber #4 camalot in a wide crack where once they had nothing (ala the old holes on Outer Space - #3s?) I agree - the bolts have been made irrelevant by technology. If "protected with modern gear" means a nest of HB brassies with screamers - I might have to disagree since the "character" of the original route will most likely change. You can see this can of worms before you open it - I'll take a look but if it's not obvious I'll either leave it be or just replace old with new. Nothing's on tap anytime in the near future so no worries either way. See everyone on the rock... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimL Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 It protects well with cams and nuts of all sizes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JensHolsten Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 Thanks Matt for having the motivation for a project like this. I would say that more than anything else, Midnight Rock needs a cleanup. Many anchors and bolts have been replaced-the problem (I notice this all over crags in Washington) is no one takes out the old bolts after they throw new ones in. WTF. Finish the job! Stevens Pass Motel, Spellbound, and many climbs at Index have four to five bolts at each anchor. Two good ones and the old shitty, trashy ones. Have fun up there Matt, the hang is unbelievable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyjizzy Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 black widow---sketchy bolts but modern pro works. leave the bolts alone. Â Can the wide "traverse" near the top be protected with wide gear? That is where I remember the majority of the bolts being. Â The top bolt of Rollercoaster is kind of tired and old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwrts Posted October 5, 2005 Share Posted October 5, 2005 I recall the bolts on Yellow bird being so mank they are falling out... however, I do remember TimL clipping the bolt before the step around move from flakes to the hand-traverse. I think the bolts were put in because the flakes are expanding/delicate and a fall may result in serious rock damage/human damage (can't really remember as it has been a few years since I was on it). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jens Posted October 5, 2005 Share Posted October 5, 2005 Thanks for doing this service to what I believe is WA finest crag. The yellow bird bolts should be replaced. Please Replace the Dagobah system bolts, it's been a long time since I've been on it, but remember it to be one of the coolest sport routes anywhere. Did somebody put some new hardware on top of Spellbound? It is surprinsing Midnight doesn't get much traffic. It has much better trad climbing than index in my humble opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwrts Posted October 5, 2005 Share Posted October 5, 2005 It may be something about the approach vs. index 2min approach and raptor closure during the bulk of the rock climable season. However, midnight gets lots of traffic...just not reported here and likewise I guess the mank doen't get retro'd due to that approach thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jens Posted October 5, 2005 Share Posted October 5, 2005 You are right about the approach. ------ Midnight has never seen lots of traffic (Some weekends during prime season it doesn't see a single party). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JensHolsten Posted October 5, 2005 Share Posted October 5, 2005 Hey Jens, cool name...someone added one bolt at an inconvenient spot on top of Spellbould, adding to the smc's and the one shitty homemade bolt. And about Midnight Rock having better trad climbing than index....that's a bold statement, although who am I to talk. I haven't been to index this fall after falling under Midnight's spell! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwrts Posted October 5, 2005 Share Posted October 5, 2005 I guess I meant over the years...there has been lots of traffic, but whateva........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimL Posted October 5, 2005 Share Posted October 5, 2005 Yeah, I do remember clipping that mank. I think you can put in a medium size cam under the small roof before the hand traverse to make it less spicey. I remeber the begining moves into the roof travese as being "Interesting". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Posted October 8, 2005 Share Posted October 8, 2005 This project will be appreciated by many. I would like to second the comment by crazyjz that the bolt at the top of Rollercoaster Chimney is a very old quarter incher. Thanks for considering replacing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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