Chouinard attacks Bush

[Peter_Puget]

Go ahead and check the labels of a great deal of the new Arc'Teryx products. Gloves, sportswear are almost all made overseas. As far as Patagonia goes, there surely must be somebody who reads this site that can attest to the working conditions in factories producing Patagonia products. I don't think this thread is about who's a better person (Yvon or W), I think this is about isolating some very discouraging aspects of how the LEADER OF THE FREE WORLD looks at said world (as 7,000 years old). As far as not having definitive evidence of W's beliefs, one need only logic: Proponents of ID believe that the world is only 7,000 years old. George Bush is obviously a proponent of ID. Ergo George Bush believes (and does not deny otherwise) that the world is 7,000 years old. Now, if one wants to be open minded and say, "Hey, I'm open minded, lets let them teach a couple of theories, evolution and ID," one needs to bear in mind how absolutely shortsighted this is and how it only teaches science and the Judeo-Christian ideas. If you're going to open the gates and teach non scientific (religious) ideas about the history of the universe, it's racist/xenophobic/close-minded/wrong to only teach those of Fundamentalist Christian theories. If Bush wasn't trying to push his Fundamentalist Christian beliefs on EVERY CHILD IN THE PUBLIC SCHOOLS, and was only trying to open the minds of others, surely he would be asking that a great many ideas/creation stories/mythologies are taught. Aboriginal Austrailians believe that all animals and humans were formed from the earth. You don't see W pushing that idea into the public schools, only close-minded Judeo-Christian ideas. Let's take a look at those who believe that the earth is 7,000 years old: Orthodox Jews, Conservative Catholics, Mormons, Fundamentalist Christians, and a few other groups of really, really welcoming, loving individuals. And if we want irony, we need look no further than the fact that Texas oil money comes from (duh) oil, which takes millions upon millions of years for nature to produce. Or maybe the intelligence put it undeground for us. So the intelligence put forests for us to take trees? You proud, squid?

 

Hmmm a quote from Griz's link which you seem not to understand:

 

“Intelligent design” is not pure creationism. Its proponents tend not to believe, for instance, the Biblical claim that the Earth is less than 6,000 years old. But they do suggest that the complex array of species on Earth could not have evolved on the basis of natural selection, and instead suggest the it reflects the hand of a hidden designer, most likely God — although some have suggested maybe aliens are a possibility.

 

[darstog]

I see what you're getting at, and I won't rush to the assumption that W believes aliens have supported our evolution. And I'll back down when somebody can prove that W believes the earth is older than 7,000 years. Until then, the rest of my argument remains.

[Fairweather]

Go ahead and check the labels of a great deal of the new Arc'Teryx products. Gloves, sportswear are almost all made overseas. As far as Patagonia goes, there surely must be somebody who reads this site that can attest to the working conditions in factories producing Patagonia products. I don't think this thread is about who's a better person (Yvon or W), I think this is about isolating some very discouraging aspects of how the LEADER OF THE FREE WORLD looks at said world (as 7,000 years old). As far as not having definitive evidence of W's beliefs, one need only logic: Proponents of ID believe that the world is only 7,000 years old. George Bush is obviously a proponent of ID. Ergo George Bush believes (and does not deny otherwise) that the world is 7,000 years old. Now, if one wants to be open minded and say, "Hey, I'm open minded, lets let them teach a couple of theories, evolution and ID," one needs to bear in mind how absolutely shortsighted this is and how it only teaches science and the Judeo-Christian ideas. If you're going to open the gates and teach non scientific (religious) ideas about the history of the universe, it's racist/xenophobic/close-minded/wrong to only teach those of Fundamentalist Christian theories. If Bush wasn't trying to push his Fundamentalist Christian beliefs on EVERY CHILD IN THE PUBLIC SCHOOLS, and was only trying to open the minds of others, surely he would be asking that a great many ideas/creation stories/mythologies are taught. Aboriginal Austrailians believe that all animals and humans were formed from the earth. You don't see W pushing that idea into the public schools, only close-minded Judeo-Christian ideas. Let's take a look at those who believe that the earth is 7,000 years old: Orthodox Jews, Conservative Catholics, Mormons, Fundamentalist Christians, and a few other groups of really, really welcoming, loving individuals. And if we want irony, we need look no further than the fact that Texas oil money comes from (duh) oil, which takes millions upon millions of years for nature to produce. Or maybe the intelligence put it undeground for us. So the intelligence put forests for us to take trees? You proud, squid?

 

I stand corrected re Arc'Teryx.

 

I believe evolution is quickly transitioning from theory to fact. And I subscribe. Always have.

 

States determine curriculum. Not the president. Calm down.

 

 

The only thing I see as closed-minded in the above post... is you.

[TREETOAD]

Bush = chimp.

Chimp DNA sequenced.

Therefore it is now possible to determine just exactly how Bush differs from a human.

Take your hands off me you damned dirty ape!!

[TREETOAD]

Hey, does Patagonia use the same overseas sweat-shops as WalMart? Another reason I only buy ArcTeryx!! They haven't sent good Canadian jobs to child/prison/endentured servitude labor in third-world countries.

 

 

Really? last arc'teryx product I bought was made in some southeast asian country. It certainly wasn't canadia.

 

ArcTeryx is now owned by Addidas now I do believe. What a bitch eh?

[cj001f]

ArcTeryx is now owned by Addidas now I do believe. What a bitch eh?

Amer Sports (Atomic/Suunto/Wilson/Precor) bought Salomon (Arc'teryx) from Adidas.

[TREETOAD]

Perhaps the chinese own Amer sports

[Dru]

BTW; it's l-a-b-o-r.

 

Labour, colour, cheque, flavour, odour, armour, rumour, Zed with a D

 

[TREETOAD]

BTW; it's l-a-b-o-r.

 

Labour, colour, cheque, flavour, odour, armour, rumour, Zed with a D

 

 

By jove, I think you have it!

[olyclimber]

Does anybody have any video of Chouinard attacking Bush? Was he inspired by the whole Trotsky story? Did he use an axe he forged in his garage?

[Dru]

he used a Wiregate Oval cause of the Office.

[Fairweather]

BTW; it's l-a-b-o-r.

 

Labour, colour, cheque, flavour, odour, armour, rumour, Zed with a D

 

 

Would you like to see my drawring?

 

[KaskadskyjKozak]

Sourcing labour to poorer countries helps alleviate global poverty. I read it in The Economist so it must be true. Fairweather wants people in poorer countries to starve by paying rich people much more money to do the jobs poor people are willing to do for less money. This is a MISALLOCATION OF RESOURCES! Next thing you know he will be joining A UNION

 

I'll accept your rhetorical response as an admission of defeat. BTW; it's l-a-b-o-r.

 

Silly Canuck-English spelling.

[cj001f]

Perhaps the chinese own Amer sports

No, the Finns. The international yellow hair peril.

[Stonehead]

“Intelligent design” is not pure creationism. Its proponents tend not to believe, for instance, the Biblical claim that the Earth is less than 6,000 years old. But they do suggest that the complex array of species on Earth could not have evolved on the basis of natural selection, and instead suggest the it reflects the hand of a hidden designer, most likely God — although some have suggested maybe aliens are a possibility.

 

But some ID proponents are creationists and this movement reflects a push to legitimize the teaching of religious themes in a science class. Please don't 'dumb down' our science teaching anymore! The ID vs. Evolution debate should be relegated to a philosophy or rhetorics class.

 

I don't the Bible claims a specific age for the Earth. I think that was deducted from the begets & the begots by people interpreting the Bible.

 

As I understand the Neo-Darwinian synthesis (evolution as it is currently understood), natural selection acts more as a filter on species, reducing diversity, rather than as an actual mechanism of speciation. Although I suppose speciation through geographic isolation could be classified as natural selection.

 

There are other mechanisms of speciation that involve heterochrony or developmental timing (ontogeny), genetic mutation, etc.

 

Isn't 'alien' anything that didn't originate on Earth? Would that include all those supernatural beings mentioned in the various world mythologies?

 

I believe the reason creationists have such a difficult time with Evolution is that it does not require a special creation, i.e., man is not accorded a special place by virtue of design. The argument was similar for the origin of the Earth and the geocentric-heliocentric controversy that the Church fiercely fought. Creationists cannot image the existence of 'chance' in producing complexity, even though the mathematics are evident, e.g., fractals.

 

There have been (are) people who believe in a teleological interpretation of Evolution. Pierre Teilhard Chardin believed in an Omega Point where evolution is continuing along a process from simple life to complex life with Man and the Noosphere at the developmental end.

[olyclimber]

Chouinard presenting in Seattle

[catbirdseat]

Chouinard presenting in Seattle

Fair warning, he won't talk much about climbing. This talk is about business.

[cj001f]

Fair warning, he won't talk much about climbing. This talk is about business.

You read the book? It's a good bit more about climbing/life than business. Not a bad read either.

[catbirdseat]

I haven't read the book but I've read many of his interviews and he really digs business. It's an interesting model.