Alex Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 I've got a grab bag of plated, Rawl 6-peice and Fixe SS, wondering whats acceptable/the norm for various rock types? In "Index-like" granite (no I am NOT DRILLING INDEX!)? Rawl 2.25 x 3/8? Do I use a 10mm bit for very hard rock? In decent Basalt: 2.25 x 3/8 or 3 x 3/8? Plated? SS? I was going 3 x 3/8 Rawl plated, but it seemed overkill? Maybe not? In Exit38 stuff: 3 x 3/8 Rawl plated? Thanks in advance. You can PM me if you dont want to "out" yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EWolfe Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 shouldn' need SS unless you are drilling limestone due to corrosion. 3/8 X 2-1/4 should be fine for everything except sandstone and tuff, where 1/2 X 3 is better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Frieh Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 Anchor bolt or protection bolt? I tend to place bigger bolts at the anchor and/or crux. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EWolfe Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 Also, the powers 5 piece bolts are the best, they have a hex head and are internally sleeved so there is next to no failure unless you hit an air pocket. Oregon Wholesale Hardware in Bend OR has them, I haven't been able to find them locally yet. Tacoma screw and Acme Construction supply are the two that are listed according to the Powers distributor in Seattle, but neither of them carry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EWolfe Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 I just re-read your post, and realized you already have bolts. The Powers used to be called the Rawls...6-piece? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 Plted would rust out at Squamish in about 10 years. If you are bolting in a Squamish-like environment, use only SS bolts and hangers and it is best to match supplier of bolt with supplier of hanger to avoid galvanic corrosion. IE use a Fixe hanger on a Fixe bolt because they are made of the same grade of SS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Off_White Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 Be aware that the 3/8" Rawl Bolt (now Powers Bolt due to buyout/merger) has an actual bolt diameter of 5/16" The sleeve (hence the diameter of the drilled hole) is 3/8". I don't know much about lengths in granite or rhino, but I'd think you would want one where the blue plastic collar is sandwiched in between the bottom expansion piece and an upper sleeve. I've seen some lengths where the plastic sleeve is right up at the end of the bolt, next to the washer and hex head. This would mean that the bearing surface of the bolt in the typical 3/8" hole hanger would be the plastic bit rather than the steel upper sleeve. In sandstone, my typical medium, I've tended to use 1/2x6, thinking of them not so much as bolts as rock pickets. A buddy gave me some 5/8x6, which yields a true 1/2" diameter bolt, which while very secure are a pain in the ass, since you have to bore out the hangers to accommodate the massive bolt diameter. For reference, the bolts on the bottom two pitches of Stellar Eclipse on Silver Star, in good granite, are 5/8x3 5 piece Rawl bolts. I consider that hideous overkill, even in an alpine environment, but it wasn't my call, but rather that of my belt-and-suspenders type partner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted August 23, 2005 Author Share Posted August 23, 2005 Thanks for the replies. The environments are "dry", i.e. not Index/Squamish or generally the West side of the crest, and not limestone. Limestone, I WISH! I had been placing 3 x 3/8 Rawl (Powers) and really like them in general, but reading ASCA sites saw that 2.25 x 3/8 is recommended as enough for "hard" rock, so was wondering if I was just using too much bolt. I am at the point where I need to "resupply" so was just checking what other's were using. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Flash_Amazing Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 Just bang in some 1/4 x 1-1/2 Star Dryvins and call it good! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 That's so old skool trad, DFA! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billcoe Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 Using a 3-1/2 for most areas around here would normally be suggested if you are power drilling. Powers web site will show you the increase in tensile and shear going from 3500 lbs at 2" length to 4395 at 3-1/2 in 2000 psi concrete. Given the inconsistancies in rock, longer is better. This effect will decrease as the bolt lengthens, so a 3/8 x 10" bolt won't be signifigantly better than a 3/8 x 5 say, in anything other than CaCa rock. Stepping up a diameter will gain you signifigant strength if you wish. check this: http://www.powers.com/pdfs/mechanical/06914.pdf BTW: always use stainless steel. I've been stupid and poor enough to put in plated steel and it's always pissed me off to see a rusting bolt which was caused by me a short period of time later. They even will rust on the East side, although it will take longer of course. Powers part number 5914 will get you the 3/8 x 3-1/2 SS Powers Bolt (formerly Rawl 5 piece). Say AHHHHH! and spend the money so that there is longevity. Plated 5 pieces will rust at the threads and get stuck, they are not easily replaced like you would expect. SNAP RIGHT OFF. For real soft rock, drilled baby angles epoxyed in, or SS u-bolts epoxyed in are the ticket. Check this undergrad thesis of an Aussie dude to see it. Very interesting. http://www.chockstone.org/TechTips/SandstoneBolting.pdf And never drill a 3/8 bolt with any thing other than a 3/8 drill unless you have a death wish. regards; Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EWolfe Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 I also believe that the 5/16" bolt bodies on the Rawls are grade 5 steel making them effectively as strong as a normal 3/8" bolt shaft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drederek Posted August 28, 2005 Share Posted August 28, 2005 I also believe that the 5/16" bolt bodies on the Rawls are grade 5 steel making them effectively as strong as a normal 3/8" bolt shaft. Attn Geeks and Nerds: We need to confirm/deny this pls Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EWolfe Posted August 28, 2005 Share Posted August 28, 2005 "Internal grade 5 bolt is removeable and reuseable" specs page for powers bolts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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