whidbey Posted August 18, 2005 Share Posted August 18, 2005 I purchased these in feb or so. They are somewhat beat up from about 8 days total time on the trial. My question is would you return them to return every item(rei) or not. I do hate them.... heavy... sucky plastic boots. My solomon pro ice kick ass and are one hundred percent better at just about everything. I would feel guilty about returning them. At the same time I don't make up the return policy. So based on what they claim.. i shouldn't feel sheepish about returning them.. and the sheep comment is only in reference to returning the boots.. not some sick sick... cascade climbers reference to horses and shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomtom Posted August 18, 2005 Share Posted August 18, 2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kioti Posted August 18, 2005 Share Posted August 18, 2005 Why did you buy them in the first place if your Pro Ice's Rock so. Are you planning any multi-day trips in the future? A trip where you'll actually use them to their advantage? If not, return them. Or give them to me if you feel guilty about returning them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whidbey Posted August 18, 2005 Author Share Posted August 18, 2005 (edited) Kioti, I purchased the degrees first...realized they suck.. heavy.. bulky and feel like ski boots.. so the Solomons i purchased after.. sorry if i wasn't clear about that. G Edited August 18, 2005 by whidbey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whidbey Posted August 18, 2005 Author Share Posted August 18, 2005 TomTom... how are the kayaks doing? .. thanks for the advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomtom Posted August 18, 2005 Share Posted August 18, 2005 Post deleted by tomtom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whidbey Posted August 18, 2005 Author Share Posted August 18, 2005 Sorry Tomtom.. wrong tom.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baltoro Posted August 19, 2005 Share Posted August 19, 2005 Whidbey That's not what the return policy is for. The idea is that you can feel confident in what you're buying because if the gear falls apart on you or totally doesn't live up to expectations than you know that the co-op can absorb the cost for you. Plastic boots are heavy, bulky and feel like ski boots, especially next to Salomon Pro Ice boots. Koflachs are not ice climbing boots and aren't really good for anything involving rock in any way shape or form. Ice boots or at least modern ice boots have become much more flexible in the ankle to allow more crampon placement then kicking like the days of old. Koflachs are great for Denali or slogging up glaciers, particularly in winter. I can't imagine what you could have done in August that they are suited for. None of this info about plastic boots is a secret. They're heavy and cumbersome, no doubt. I think you mis-evaluated what you wanted and didn't get enough info before buying. Most REI stores will rent you a pair to try out and if you like them you can apply the rental cost to the purchase cost of a new pair. If they don't work then you're just out the rental cost. It will also give you a better idea of what the boot will be like after it softens up some whereas a new boot will be stiff as hell. REI gives away 80% of it's profit as a dividend to members so no one is getting rich there (which seems to be a common cc.com misconception) so it's not like you're pulling one over on the man here, you're just helping to jack up prices. They also will look at total returns on products and when they see mass returns on climbing gear, since people do this all the time, they're less likely to carry it. People complain about the downfall of REI's climbing department but when half the sales get returned what do people expect. REI won't even notice if you do it or not but I feel it's a matter of integrity. The fact that you had to ask about it here says to me that you were looking for added justification to return them. Do what you think is right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whidbey Posted August 19, 2005 Author Share Posted August 19, 2005 (edited) Maybe i should try again with you baltoro. I buy a ton of shit from REI and don't return it. I'm sure the CEO and CFO are making out alright. If i'm wrong please post thier income here and prove me wrong. I think if they are devoted to selling quality stuff then I guess they shouldn't stock it. Make it special order. Yes I was wrong in purchasing it. If it was a tent or jacket or something else it would show little or no wear and do quite well at the next garage sale. I'm glad your concerned about us climbers...dickhead!! I used to frequent the rei on capital hill when it was a climbers store. gone are the days of climbing. When i want my next smooooooooooooooothie i'll be sure to stop by the seattle store. I will continue to shop at rei until it's not worth it. if another dipshit asked me if i'm a member ..well that might be the end of it. I love second accent and i've heard good things about pro mountain sport. I spend money at AAI in bellingham. My money is green like the next person. Last time I went to REI is passed a few people with treking poles leaving the store.............. yeh If i was causing such a crimp in the fu'n pricing.. i guess rei might have something worth buying in such places like alderwood. they caring jack shit... will help you find a computer to order it with free shipping if i'm willing to drive another hour and half back to the store to save it. Please...brothers of CC.COM.. spend your money elsewhere. Edited August 19, 2005 by whidbey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cj001f Posted August 19, 2005 Share Posted August 19, 2005 Whidbey That's not what the return policy is for. That's bullshit Baltoro. That's exactly what the policy is for, according to the REI CEO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whidbey Posted August 19, 2005 Author Share Posted August 19, 2005 cj001f... that is why i thought i was paying more than i should. can find almost anything for less elsewhere. pay more but have the option of returning it.... kinda like nordi's. If that isn't the case then i guess i was foolish to think so. I still feel a little quilty getting a refund that is i would guess more than my right. I could have purchased all of my rei stuff for less... didn't. that was the point. if it didn't work i could take it back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshK Posted August 19, 2005 Share Posted August 19, 2005 Baltoro is FULL OF CRAP. Return them if you aren't happy. The way I see it is if it wasn't for the return policy to guarantee me being happy with my gear, why in the hell would i buy ANYTHING from REI? You can get it cheaper online in every case or from a better store. For some items I am willing to pay full retail and buy it from REI with the understanding that I can return it if I am not happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whidbey Posted August 19, 2005 Author Share Posted August 19, 2005 The boots are about the price of that new bivy sack i've been lusting for Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baltoro Posted August 19, 2005 Share Posted August 19, 2005 Whidbey I'm not trying to get into a pissing match with you here. You asked for people's opinions and you didn't like the one that disagreed with yours. You knew, or should've known what to expect when you bought plastics. If you feel like you were mislead by the no doubt way too inexperienced sales guy then by all means bring them back because they sold you the wrong boots. As to compensation for CEO and CFO, Dennis Madsen the former, now retired president and CEO made just under 1.4 million last year in total compensation after bonuses in a pretty good year. Brad Johnson, the CFO, made $610K. These numbers are including retirement dollars which inflates them somewhat. This by the way is now public information even though REI does not have to reveal it, they chose to for transperancy to the members. They don't want it to be a big secret. This year so far, on total sales of $400 some odd million, REI will get a net profit of about $1.9 million, almost entirely from the membership sales. That's what brings in the cash for new technology to stay competitive, to open new stores to get new people outside, and to train all those gumby employees. So they net $1.9 million through the first half of the year and they just cut checks for $780,000 to 160 different conservation and outdoor recreation clubs. How much did Second Ascent donate? I realize that it's not remotely possible for Second Ascent to do that. They have a place in the market as does REI. We just can't expect these companies to do things outside of their capacity. REI can sell a hell of a lot more nalgenes and TNF Denali jackets than they can offset aliens or Bibler tents. By all means go to FF or SA or ProMountain for those things. Go to REI for whatever else you can't get at these places that you think they might have and don't expect the guy behind the climbing counter to know his sh**. Some of them do and the good ones won't try and BS you, but most don't know. Again, I'm not trying to have a pissing match here. I respect your opinion and I hope some extra info helps. If you still feel the same then that's totally fine. Like you said you'll spend your dollars elsewhere. I'm sorry if my first post came off too attacking as that wasn't my intent. I too am pissed that the guy who helped you didn't qualify what you were using them for and sold you boots that probably weren't good for you. The idea is that you are able to trust them to sell you the right stuff the first time and the return policy is the guarantee to back that up. Like I said, if they steared you wrong then by all means, bring 'em back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cj001f Posted August 19, 2005 Share Posted August 19, 2005 Why don't you say you work for REI Baltoro? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshK Posted August 19, 2005 Share Posted August 19, 2005 Why don't you say you work for REI Baltoro? Cause he doesn't *have* to reveal that information... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baltoro Posted August 19, 2005 Share Posted August 19, 2005 I do. If anything PM me your gear needs as I've probably prodealed one and am ready to try something else out and can't sell my toy for more than I bought it for (cheap). And whenver I get to speak to our higher ups I ask them the same type of questions that you guys would. I got an email about compensation for our then top 5 employees before it went to the press becasue my manager's manager's manager's manager wanted me to know about it. Belive me, I give them hell. And I feel the same as you guys on a great deal of these issues and make my opinion felt, and REI feels the same on a lot of them also. Product training is a huge focus this year becasue we've lost a tremendous amount of credibility with our customers becasue there are too many people wearing a green vest who don't know what they're talking about. Will training fix that? No, but it'll help and that's all we can hope for. I'm by no means saying REI is the greatest. If you guys have questions you want asked then PM me and I'll do my best to get an answer. There is a pretty good open door flow of information without to much BS attached so I might be able to help you out. Again I'm not trying to have a pissing match here and I look forward to talking to you all if interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macson Posted August 19, 2005 Share Posted August 19, 2005 I don't know how Whidbey or anyone else for that matter approaches an REI purchase, but I know for me that I go in there with the attitude that the sales staff doesn't know shit, and I ignore pretty much everything they say. If I was there to buy plastics and the sales guy tried to tell me what they were and were not good for I would either tune him out, or tell him to just get me the friggen boots. I've returned stuff when it didn't stand up the way I thought it should. A backpack when the stays ripped out of the bottom, an LED headlamp when one of the bulbs burned out (the ones that are supposed to last 10,000 hours). But I would never return an item because I chose the wrong thing. And I certainly would never blame the sales staff...who I wouldn't have listened to even if they did try to steer me away from a purchase. By the way, if you're getting 10% back you're not paying full retail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EJohnson Posted August 19, 2005 Share Posted August 19, 2005 (edited) Fuck REI!!! - Take them back!!! Walmart of the outdoor world Edited August 19, 2005 by EJohnson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshK Posted August 19, 2005 Share Posted August 19, 2005 I don't know how Whidbey or anyone else for that matter approaches an REI purchase, but I know for me that I go in there with the attitude that the sales staff doesn't know shit, and I ignore pretty much everything they say. If I was there to buy plastics and the sales guy tried to tell me what they were and were not good for I would either tune him out, or tell him to just get me the friggen boots. I've returned stuff when it didn't stand up the way I thought it should. A backpack when the stays ripped out of the bottom, an LED headlamp when one of the bulbs burned out (the ones that are supposed to last 10,000 hours). But I would never return an item because I chose the wrong thing. And I certainly would never blame the sales staff...who I wouldn't have listened to even if they did try to steer me away from a purchase. By the way, if you're getting 10% back you're not paying full retail. It is 8% back for those of us in the 21st century that don't carry around a check book or want another fucking credit card just to get 2% back at REI. In any event, you can do way better than 8% off retail. Their guarantee is "satisfaction guaranteed". Satisfaction is pretty general. If you made the wrong choice and aren't satisfied that still clearly falls under their return policy. It is your choice if you guys don't think it is legit, but the fact is it IS pefectly legit under their return policy, so don't harp on those that seem to understand that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbelitz Posted August 19, 2005 Share Posted August 19, 2005 You fucked up. You can legally return them for a full refund. I'd feel bad if I did the same. If I were you, I'd suck it up and absorb the cost of my stupidity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cj001f Posted August 19, 2005 Share Posted August 19, 2005 It is your choice if you guys don't think it is legit, but the fact is it IS pefectly legit under their return policy, so don't harp on those that seem to understand that. Exactly. Their return policy is the only reason I buy things at REI. It's part of their value proposition. When their CEO stops talking about how "people can try out a new sport with gear from REI and if they don't like the sport return the gear" (paraphrase), then I'll start thinking it's evil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshK Posted August 20, 2005 Share Posted August 20, 2005 It is your choice if you guys don't think it is legit, but the fact is it IS pefectly legit under their return policy, so don't harp on those that seem to understand that. Exactly. Their return policy is the only reason I buy things at REI. It's part of their value proposition. When their CEO stops talking about how "people can try out a new sport with gear from REI and if they don't like the sport return the gear" (paraphrase), then I'll start thinking it's evil. No doubt. I'm not sure how these guys don't manage to see this point... The fact is REI *knows* people will do this but it is vastly offset by the legions of tourons and yuppies that go in there and buy $1000 worth of shit, use it once, and then let it sit in their closet for 10 years rather than return it. For people who actually *USE* their gear, then returning something you aren't happy with is part of the deal. If you guys really think it is taking advantage of their policy, i recommend looking into some basic business marketing classes or something along those lines. By offering the customer that feel-good "don't worry, no risk to you!!" guarantee, a lot more people buy stuff than they normally would. The majority of those people do not return the goods and those that do are still vastly offset by the additional purchses made due to that "feel-good" guarantee. Feel bad if you want, but don't think you are somehow pulling something over on REI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whidbey Posted September 10, 2005 Author Share Posted September 10, 2005 Regarding all those who thought I shouldn't take them back..... I did finally take them back after all your horseshit. I paid more than I should have for them.. the more a think about it I don't feel one bit of quilt. I spend major amoount of money a year at REI,.. On some item the only reason i purchase them is based on the return policy. If you all want to piss and you know what.. i'm climbing tommorow and would love to climb with you. Keep your politics and personal REI shit to yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted September 10, 2005 Share Posted September 10, 2005 If you can't accept other's points of view on this matter, dont ask for others opinions on what to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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