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JosephH

Chalk - you've got to be kidding me...

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...over something so trivial as chalk.

 

Well, that's the difference, I don't think it's trivial - if you and others do than I suppose it shouldn't really be a problem for you to cut back or leaving it at home when it it isn't necessary. Or, just maybe Dr.,it really isn't trivial and you can't climb, flash, or be amazing without it on a cool, gritty, 5.9? Only you know for sure. I'm simply asking folks to think for moment whether they really need it on a give day, rock, or move before drenching a route in chalk...

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...over something so trivial as chalk.

 

Well, that's the difference, I don't think it's trivial -

Remember this rebuttal is coming from the Dr Flash Amazing the sporto god from SmithRock.

 

 

 

HEY CBS- you should inhale the chalk dust as it blows your way...as a chemist I would think you like that type of stuff. mushsmile.gifcantfocus.gif

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...over something so trivial as chalk.

 

Well, that's the difference, I don't think it's trivial -

Remember this rebuttal is coming from the Dr Flash Amazing the sporto god from SmithRock.

 

 

 

HEY CBS- you should inhale the chalk dust as it blows your way...as a chemist I would think you like that type of stuff. mushsmile.gifcantfocus.gif

Chalk was once thought to be contaminated to varying degrees with asbestos. Childrens chalk was tested and found not to contain it. Who knows about climber's chalk? Certainly it is unpleasant to breath the stuff in. When they created the policy of no loose chalk at Stone Gardens, the atmosphere there improved immensely.

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so...exactly what does free floating chalk do to the strength of a figure 8 or a bowline???????

 

Inquiring minds are desperately seeking the answers...their very lives and safety are depending on it!!

 

rolleyes.gif

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I don't remember seeing any chalk used in the 70's.

 

When (and where) did anyone first see its use?

 

Sheeeit, in the 70's we had chalkbags made out of sleeping bag stuffsacks. It was the only way to chalk your elbows for the wide stuff. Some of the brits would get all wound up about powder puff boys and the whack and dangle merchants, read some old Mountain issues at the Mountaineer's Library for the backstory.

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CBS- chalk is magnesium carbonate not asbestos. Asbestos is a crystal recognized by its long, thin fibers. They can be found in rock containing serpentine or amphiboles but not magnesium carbonate. The Suspect material you must be thinking of is CHALKBOARDS not chalk.

 

Sidenote: I am going to the old AAA bldg near Aurora to conduct a Hazardous Building Material Survey; specifically looking for Asbestos Containing Materials...

yee-haw. lucky I am. now time for beer.

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shit, real cascade hardmen (and hardwomen, i suppose for that matter) chalk up their HCL.gif before getting busy... fruit.giffruit.giffruit.gif

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Seems like metolius or someone came out with colored chalk so as not to offend the delicate sensibilities of, er, cc.commers and you know what? Noone bought it so it seems.... drum roll please.... Very few give a rats ass if its all over the rocks! Personally I think it ruins an onsite for me when hard to spot holds are ticked but I'm not gonna breakdown and buy a gun to shoot someone for being an inconsiderate slob. Hmm guess I'm with you on this one Jo.

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I don't remember seeing any chalk used in the 70's.

 

When (and where) did anyone first see its use?

 

Sheeeit, in the 70's we had chalkbags made out of sleeping bag stuffsacks. It was the only way to chalk your elbows for the wide stuff. Some of the brits would get all wound up about powder puff boys and the whack and dangle merchants, read some old Mountain issues at the Mountaineer's Library for the backstory.

I heard a funny story once about a mishap with a chalk bag. I think it was Geoff Childs who told it, but I wouldn't swear to it. He forgot to loosen the cord and he was on the crux when went to take a dip. His hand got stuck in the bag and as his other had was occupied, he was in a pickle. I think he had an audience for the whole thing. Tried to do a head jam so he could use his other hand to free the stuck one and ended up pitching off.

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Chalk? Hmmm. I think I'll start worrying about the environmental/health/aesthetic impacts of chalk when climbers start worrying about the environmental/health/aesthetic impacts of cliffside trails, moss/lichen removal, using tape, and smoking at the crag. But I don't climb at Beacon rock, so maybe I'm missing out on the reality of big dung heaps of chalk on every hold. Bring a trowel.

 

wave.gif

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Well Geek, it isn't so much an environmental/health/aesthetic impact I'm concerned about, though they are legitimate complaints (healthwise more so in gyms), no my problem with it is I'm simply trying to climb a line and when it's been drenched on dark gray rock it takes on a real climb-by-the-dot / breadcrumb appearance that gets hard to ignore. Now I can ignore it but it really degrades the experience as I'm not really into the Lemmings school of climbing movement. I really don't need or want to see where/how where other folks climb and I really don't like that shit all over holds that don't need it.

 

This is a matter of conditioning, mostly from gyms and bouldering where you can make a case that after so many greasy paws have slimed off some small sloper you actually need the aid. But, again, on the rock out at Beacon 90% of the holds need chalk about 5% of the time. Somehow folks have gotten so psychologically addicted to chalk that they can't get up a gritty 5.7 without it. It's used to wild excess, and if a little consideration for others; the ability to discriminate between a gym, Smith, and Beacon; and a thoughtful and judicious use of the stuff is beyond the capability of today's climbers then the situation has gotten pretty damn sad.

 

[Note: I should have qualified "drenched" and "slathered" in the first post - by that I mean basically a very few people managed to deposit so much chalk on most of the holds they used that partial and whole hand prints were completely opaque with excess mounds of chalk compressed all over the print - I've been sweating rivers in the Valley on offwidths wishing I could get that much chalk out of the bag, but never figured out how one would short of cupping a handful out. Again, I'm not complaining about normal, judicious chalk use here...]

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I stoped using chalk about 4 months ago because I ran out and didnt want to buy more. I found that I can climb anything that I can with chalk just as good as I can without. I think people just get in the habit of dipping when there nervous. Chalks over rated.

agree- on 5.4 really doesn't matter. piss off wanker

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I have certainly wondered about chalk in gyms... breathing it that is. Aren't some substances harmful to your lungs due to their shape, not their chemical composition?

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I have certainly wondered about chalk in gyms... breathing it that is. Aren't some substances harmful to your lungs due to their shape, not their chemical composition?

 

If by shape you mean on the molecular scale, then yes. But then you say not chemical composition so lets leave the molecular scale. Above molecular scale,in lung toxicology the size and mass of inhaled particles is important. For diameters much above 2 microns the particles tend to slam into the airway walls when the path to the alveolus makes angles. They get stuck in the mucous and cilia transport it all back up to the throat where you hork it down or out. For diameters below 2 microns the particles follow the airflow gracefully to the alveoli but there they just get absorbed into the cells and disposed of like other junk. 2 microns is supposed to be a bad size, but I don't remember why, only that a toxicologist told me that long ago. And now I finally got to sound technikal. Sorry I couldn't answer your question, though. I imagine little ninja death star sharp-edged shapes could be bad.

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I've always thought studing chalk in gyms would be a perfect Masters or Phd project for some budding pulmonary specialist...

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I remember in the 70's when folks started using the stuff in MT. I wasn't sure exactly what it was that they were using. So, on the way out one day I stopped by the grocery store and picked up some baby powder. Sure enough, it made the rock as smooth, and slippery, as a baby's butt! rolleyes.gif

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I have certainly wondered about chalk in gyms... breathing it that is. Aren't some substances harmful to your lungs due to their shape, not their chemical composition?

 

If by shape you mean on the molecular scale, then yes. But then you say not chemical composition so lets leave the molecular scale. Above molecular scale,in lung toxicology the size and mass of inhaled particles is important. For diameters much above 2 microns the particles tend to slam into the airway walls when the path to the alveolus makes angles. They get stuck in the mucous and cilia transport it all back up to the throat where you hork it down or out. For diameters below 2 microns the particles follow the airflow gracefully to the alveoli but there they just get absorbed into the cells and disposed of like other junk. 2 microns is supposed to be a bad size, but I don't remember why, only that a toxicologist told me that long ago. And now I finally got to sound technikal. Sorry I couldn't answer your question, though. I imagine little ninja death star sharp-edged shapes could be bad.

 

I always suspected that "hork" was a medical term.

 

I can see that using chalk in an enclosed area could cause problems; but when you are outside, it doesn't seem like that big of a deal. Does it?

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but when you are outside, it doesn't seem like that big of a deal. Does it?

 

No, as long as you don't breath it.

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viruses can stick to chalk and be transported more easily to your lungs

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yeah...dru has been using that one to "explain" how he came down with HIV...

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