Rope Stack Rappel

[Buckaroo]

Need to do a multi pitch rappel with 50m twin ropes on a route with loose rock . The beta is to stack the rope and pay it out as you're rappelling. Was wondering how this is done?

 

This leads to another question. This piece of gear was found at the hut below the route in question, was wondering if this is a rope stack holding device? It looks like you could lap coil the rope and then insert it into the device to hold the rope as you're rappelling. It's got like a solid nylon core and is flexible. I think the quick draw is separate as it's easily removed.

[Buckaroo]

Not letting me attach an image.

 

[Buckaroo]

 

The large diameter is 3.5"

[forrest_m]

to answer your original question, i would assume that they mean to butterfly coil the rope over your shoulders instead of tossing the rope down the pitch so that you don't have loose coils of rope hanging down below. also a useful technique when it is windy, or, say canyoneering and are trying to avoid throwing your whole rope into the pool of water at the base of the rap.

 

i have no idea what that piece of gear is, but it seems like it might work to stack the rope at a belay, but would probably be a pain to feed rope out (i.e. while rapelling).

[Buckaroo]

"to butterfly coil the rope over your shoulders instead of tossing the rope down the pitch so that you don't have loose coils of rope hanging down below"

 

Yes, that's what I'm talking about.

[cj001f]

Or you could go with a rope bag.

[Paul_K]

Here is a technique I've seen used that seems to work well. First set up the rappel and then butterfly both strands of the rope together starting at the ends.

 

Then put a single runner under the coiled rope and clip both ends of the runner to your harness. As you rappel the rope pulls smoothly off the stack.

 

Next time I have an easy sport rappel I'll experiment with it.

[fern]

when I do stacked-rope raps I just use 2 slings. 1 for each side of the rope clipped off on a gear loop. You need loops of diminishing length from bottom to top to get the stacks to feed cleanly. Personally I wouldn't stack over the shoulder cause it's too close to getting myself strangled if there is a tangle. Why carry an extra non versatile widget? That thing is probably european

[iain]

you could also stack it in your pack if you don't want a bunch of rope getting in the way of things

[Dru]

Or you could go with a rope bag.

 

we have a winner!

 

when rapping loose rock the problem is not so much when you throw the rope as when you pull the rope in which case all the hooks and bags around will not help much if it dislodges something.

[mattp]

Dru is sort of correct, but low angle rappels on blocky terrain provide ample opportunity to pull rocks on your head as you try to clear the ropes while the first person rappels. In addition, if they pile up together in heaps on intermittent ledges and you pull them down two or three times into successively lower heaps, there is great opportunity to get them tangled up. Sometimes I find it helpful to throw one rope "right" and one "left" and have two climbers simul-rappel, with each guy taking care of one rope.

[goatboy]

For me, there are two cruxes:

 

1) When you throw the ropes down and rap, you can send loose blocks down onto your ropes below, neatly core-shotting them all to heck (done it myself, like a dummy, once)

 

2) Pulling the ropes after you rappel (as Dru mentioned)

 

So, coiling the ropes on you and paying out as you go prevents the first scenario. I go with the butterfly coils and a single runner holding them together, with the "feeding end" closest to the belay device, and the tail end furthest away. Feeds pretty well, mostly painless.

[luwayo]

i've tried stacking across my cowtail extension to my atc. just wanted to tell you how much that sucked. the loops of diminishing lengths looked very orderly, until the whole thing wanted to slide left & right. i suspect it had to do with the newness/smoothness of the rope, and also the rain. after that, we fed it out of a pack but first creating a false bottom with an article of clothing. this went much better. however the exit side for the rope out of the pack is counter-intuitive. after the fact, we speculated it would have been easier to exit the rope on the L. side of the pack, to create enough slack leading to the R. brake hand.

[Buckaroo]

""but low angle rappels on blocky terrain provide ample opportunity to pull rocks on your head as you try to clear the ropes while the first person rappels.""

 

This is the primary reason for me. Blocky loose terrain. The kind of stuff where any disturbance drags things closer to the edge or off and you want to minimize it as much as possible.

 

The rope bag trick worked very well. I've tried the butterfly, just don't have the patience to coil it each one smaller, it was much faster to just stuff both ropes at once. Plus I was scrambling down through trees between raps and I could just throw the bag down when needed. Was doing twin 50's and have never had it that easy on a low angle rappel going down first. Usually you try to go second so your partner can get the rope straight to the next anchor.

 

Rigged a bag out of a sleeping bag stuff sack with a clip separate from the cinch cord. Couple minor problems, first the rope was a little twisted, not sure if this happened on the initial packing or from the rap device. Secondly it's kind of scary when you get near the end and can't see the end of the rope cuz it's in the bag. This was alleviated by tying the ends together.

 

Have to search for a bag with something around the top to hold it open while packing the rope, like a nylon hoop, hopefully someone makes something, it might be tricky to fabricate.

 

There was a party of Mounties coming up as I was rapping down it was nice not to worry if I was tossing the rope on their heads.

 

(speaking of gear the new Reversino is sweet)

[cj001f]

Stiff rim, excellent quality:

http://canyoneeringusa.com/shop/index.php?cat_id=8&PHPSESSID=57b94766d611cc4b1347feac059bb22f

[PaulB]

Then put a single runner under the coiled rope and clip both ends of the runner to your harness.

This technique is nicely shown in the photo on the back cover of this year's CAJ.