bonathanjarrett Posted May 31, 2005 Share Posted May 31, 2005 Aaaaaaaaaargh. For the sake of not disrupting the newbie thread on building a rack with what will certainly become a rant, I have started a new topic here. So the question is this: Does anyone out there seriously think that hexes have a place on the modern climbers rack? Following the argument that hexes have a place on an alpine climbers rack I looked at three pieces that would complement as set of nuts. For the comparison I looked at BD C4 camalots versus BD wired hexendrics. The total weight for three hexes covering .94"-2.5" (#5,#7,#9) is a hair over 9oz. The total weight for three C4 cams covering essentially the same range .94"-2.55" (#.75,#1, #2) is about 14.3 oz. Yet for each of these peices you get a much great range of expansion, placement, and security. All this for saving 5oz? Sounds pretty good for me. I have seen people climb with packs and ropes that are rediculously overkill for the objective. Yet they choose to save weight on their rack by using hexes. They sound like a herd of goats with that jangling. My preference is to use tri-cams. Three pieces that cover essentially the same range as mentioned above weigh in a hair over 8 oz LIGHTER than the hexes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted May 31, 2005 Share Posted May 31, 2005 I've only got experience with the WC curved hexes, but I really like mine and place them on just about every route I do. I even had my previously reluctant partner using them routinely by the end of last weekend. They are way cheaper than cams as well, especially if you must leave a piece behind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
selkirk Posted May 31, 2005 Share Posted May 31, 2005 I think it depends on lots and lots of things. If by modern climber, you mean someone putting up 5.11 trad routes in the alpine then, no probably not. When your twitching an hanging on one arm it's tough to find the time to futz a bit with hexes. That said, I think hexes or tri-cams still certainly have a place. 1. Lighter (especially the Wild Country) (though the margin is closing) 2. Better in shitty rock or iced up cracks. 3. Easier to evaluate what a "good" placement is, much less worry of walking, or overcamming. (I've only seen 1 fixed hex so far, but a reasonable number of fixed cams and nuts) 4. More disposable in a pinch. Would you really rather leave behind the $60 cam or the $10 hex? So.. my .02 cents? Worth having a few as redudant pieces. Instead of doubling up on cams that you may or may not need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted May 31, 2005 Share Posted May 31, 2005 Hexes often feel more secure than cams at places like Tieton. The mid sizes are not too bulky, and very light for longer trips. You could leave them behind on desperate raps and not feel so bad (apart from the littering). You could infiltrate Mountaineers classes for choice photo ops by wearing doubles in the larger sizes off your harness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted May 31, 2005 Share Posted May 31, 2005 (I've only seen 1 fixed hex so far, but a reasonable number of fixed cams and nuts) I'm all for Hexes, but I think the above is due more to cam/nut popularity than anything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
selkirk Posted May 31, 2005 Share Posted May 31, 2005 I think part of it is clean-ability as well--- Nuts usually end up fixed because the can't be forced backward and out of the constiction due to awkward placements, wavy cracks vs straight nut tools etc. Cams, once they're completely out of camming range your hosed. Hexes though typically require larger cracks that offer more manueverability then with nuts, and should be able to be backed out, unlike cams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minx Posted May 31, 2005 Share Posted May 31, 2005 passive pro is a good thing. i love wc curve hexes. they seem to place a lot of different places. sometimes they're a better choice than a nut. i think they're easier to place than tri-cams. that's just me. as mentioned before. i'd rather bail off a hex than an expensive cam! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foraker Posted May 31, 2005 Share Posted May 31, 2005 i think hexes are great. really much better than cams if you want somethin bomb proof. that said, i pretty much don't use them much anymore since i trust my cam placements. I think they are a great learning tool and a cheap alternative to cams if you are a student and just getting into climbing (i.e. no funds to shell out for cams) there are times, though, when i see a placement and i wish i had a hex for it.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted May 31, 2005 Share Posted May 31, 2005 Aaaaaaaaaargh. For the sake of not disrupting the newbie thread on building a rack with what will certainly become a rant, I have started a new topic here. So the question is this: Does anyone out there seriously think that hexes have a place on the modern climbers rack? Following the argument that hexes have a place on an alpine climbers rack I looked at three pieces that would complement as set of nuts. For the comparison I looked at BD C4 camalots versus BD wired hexendrics. The total weight for three hexes covering .94"-2.5" (#5,#7,#9) is a hair over 9oz. The total weight for three C4 cams covering essentially the same range .94"-2.55" (#.75,#1, #2) is about 14.3 oz. Yet for each of these peices you get a much great range of expansion, placement, and security. All this for saving 5oz? Sounds pretty good for me. I have seen people climb with packs and ropes that are rediculously overkill for the objective. Yet they choose to save weight on their rack by using hexes. They sound like a herd of goats with that jangling. My preference is to use tri-cams. Three pieces that cover essentially the same range as mentioned above weigh in a hair over 8 oz LIGHTER than the hexes. If you are into tricams, then that completely changes the equation. I'd say yes, you could do fine without hexes if you carried tricams. Like hexes, they sometimes work better than cams would and are light for their size. On the other hand, as Selkirk mentioned, in places with inward flaring cracks, nothing works better than hexes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonathanjarrett Posted June 1, 2005 Author Share Posted June 1, 2005 It is funny that I hear all these folks extolling the virtues of hexes, and yet I rarely ever come across an experienced trad climber carrying them. Yes, I understand that it is a valuable skill to be able to place and use a hex. Yes, they are a cheap alternative to cams. Yes they are light. However one cannot ignore the fact that they are cumbersome to place and the given range for a particular size simply does not compare to that of a cam. As for this repeated argument that they are somehow superior and more bombproof than cams, I am a little astounded. A properly chosen size will not get stuck (newbie mistake), and the appropriate length sling will prevent rope drag and the cam from walking (also newbie mistake). If I were to bail and leave gear, my first choice would be one or preferably two bomber equalized nuts, because they are inexpensive and easy to evaluate. That said I have never bailed off a piece of gear in 15 years of climbing. I also remember being low on cash and full of climbing dreams. I was duped into buying a set of hexes when I first started, because I was told that was the cheap way to get into leading. However I quickly learned that I threw away a good chunk of change that could have gone towards buying three cams, which I did eventually. And once I had that set of cams, my hexes were relegated to the back of the closet. I hate to see some newbie read this thread and buy a set of hexes also because they think that that is the best way to spend their hard earned cash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Szyjakowski Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 thin to wide Hand-Sized hexes are very useful to double up on weight pickey climbers' racks. My friends and I usually use these craggin or in the mountains. But, don't believe me and buy new Camalots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 Obviously if you are climbing hard thin trad you would probably not be placing hexes. I could see lugging in a few for long moderate stuff in the pickets for example, where there is a lot of mileage and you probably have hands free to fiddle with them. They are like $10 aren't they? It's not like they break the bank. Yeah they don't get used much, but they still get used a bit. You don't have to buy the whole set. Not a huge hex advocate, but I can see their place in the game. They still rock at Tieton. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 For types of climbs I do, hexes allow me to get by with only one set of a cams instead of two. As the climbing gets harder and steeper, no question, you don't want to be spending time fiddling with hexes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonathanjarrett Posted June 1, 2005 Author Share Posted June 1, 2005 So perhaps the crucial point to be made is that a few hexes are a reasonable supplement to a normal rack when weight and other factors are taken into consideration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ponzini Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 I've sucessfully hammered in small hexes in order to retreat from a few alpine routes. Hammering in cams wouldn't have worked - we might still be up there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drederek Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 Yep I carry 5 with me and I have bailed on them and replaced them. Originally got them to double up cams on large sizes cheaply. Stoppers double up the small cams. And they do work well at the Tieton. And they don't go bonk bonk bonk down the trail if you put them in your pack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayB Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 I don't use hexes all that much outside of alpine climbing, but they rule in convoluted andesite/basalt cracks - I think that they are my pro of choice for hand-sized placements on that stuff. All things considered, I still think that using hexes to supplement hand-sized cams is a reasonable way to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken4ord Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 The long answer: Hexes usually are for people who can't afford or are to cheap to buy cams. Cams are so easy to use why use passive pro like hexes and tricams (though I have to admit sometimes tricams place where nothing else will). What's funny is I hear alot about the virtues of the weight savings having hexes instead of cams, but the same people are out there with both. Rarely do I see someone with hexes instead of cams, (unless it is some old crusty that thinks cams are aid). So instead of saving weight by having hexes instead of cams most people I think add weight to there rack by having hexes. The wide placement seem to be the ones that people are more concerned about because big cams weigh a lot more than big hexes, but if you are in a long wide crack you'll have to bring a few to protect the crack or use a single big cam and walk it. I would rather bring cams than hexes any day. The short answer: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomtom Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 For the WR of Forbidden this weekend, I carried a few medium stoppers, three smallest tricams, and three middle hexes to cover the range to 2". Worked well, but I ended up slinging horns and pinchs for most of my pro anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
korup Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 Call me a retro-grouch, but I don't think newbies should be using cams at all. My feeling is that you should climb awhile on passive pro only, too many folks think cams are just plug-and-play, leading to shitty placements and bad habits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chucK Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 Yeah, I always figured the best way to help newbies learn how to correctly place a cam was to restrict their usage. BTW: I LOVE HEXES!!! (in moderation) never more than 3 on a rack on blocky terrain with lots of large cracks with constrictions (think Mt. Stuart) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken4ord Posted June 2, 2005 Share Posted June 2, 2005 Yeah, I always figured the best way to help newbies learn how to correctly place a cam was to restrict their usage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyclimb Posted June 2, 2005 Share Posted June 2, 2005 A buddy of mine climbs almost exclusively on Hexes. The funny thing is he dresses and acts like Clint Eastwood in the eiger sanction. It is great to watch him on 5.9+ lay back flakes, trying deperatly to throw a hex in. After about 10 tries, he starts to get so fucking pumped, and the last piece is 20+ feet down, cause they take so long to place. He starts really sketching out, and usually barely averts serious injury. fuck hexes, sack up and whip on cams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 4, 2005 Share Posted June 4, 2005 i bought a set of hexes with my first rack. then i just got too annoyed with them after i got my whole cam rack together. i gave them away and have never looked back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill_Simpkins Posted June 4, 2005 Share Posted June 4, 2005 I'd rather have 3 Camalots than a whole set of hexes. I like the smallest sized hexs for aid climbing. The biggest BD hex weighs the SAME as a #4 Forged Friend Cam. Just food for thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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