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Lyme disease in Leavenworth

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How does it go- its hard to teach an old dog new tricks?

Tom that method i mentioned really works very well.

But- you don't have to listen to my advice.

I have done this string method many times with just the string and its much quicker, but it is hard to get around the hair everytime.

I am averaging anywhere between 3-5 ticks per weekend on me & my dog.

Between me and my partners the tick count goes about double or more.

This has been the case in the Icicle since early March of this year.

We have been gardening out alot of new cracks this spring, so as a result we get allot of dirt, grass & ticks on us.

I get allot of practice as you may gather.

I have tried polish, solvent, oil, matches,and you name it.

The string method is by far the easiest & fastest way that I have used.

Also, regarding the dog laying still.

I don't know about your dog, but my dog is an acomplished hunting dog, and when I tell her to do anything she willingly does it on command verbaly or hand signal.

In the process of training my dog, I have never once laid a heavy hand on my dog, instead I reward her.

She trusts me. She will even pee or dump on my command. That's also pretty handy.

Since you did not like my advice on the tick extraction, My suggestion about the dog will probably not hold water for you either.

But, It's simple to train you dog if you start when they are a puppy.

The training depends on your consistency and commitment to get good results.

The best thing to do is to towel dry the puppy off every time that they get wet & spend a little time grooming the dog.

They love it, and later, when you need to cut the dogs nails, pull a tick, feed them medicine,a shot at the vet, etc. Put a towel on them, They trust you and lay still for you while you fix the problem.

Why won't your dog lay still? What's up with that? Do you think that's normal? It simply means that your dog is not working with you, or does not trust you.

Maybe that's too much work too?

Good luck!


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There's a company out east that has a vaccination for Lyme Disease called Lyme-Rix. It's shown 70% effectiveness, which is 70% better protection than what you have now.

It totally sucks that a little piss-ant tick can permanently screw us up for life, just with one bite. At least with a woman...

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According to a related article in todays NY Times, at: http://www.nytimes.com/2001/06/13/health/13LYME.html

lyme disease isn't nearly the scourge I had feared. Summed up, the article says:

-Lyme disease is very difficult to catch, even from a deer tick in a Lyme-infested area, and can easily be stopped in its tracks with a single dose of an antibiotic, a new study shows.

-People who are bitten can watch the site where the tick fed, Dr. Shapiro said, and if they develop a rash within a few weeks, they can take a full course of antibiotics.

"Give that person 10 to 21 days of antibiotics," he said, "and they will be fine."

-Lyme disease researchers emphasized, however, that previous studies had shown that most people with the infection get better on their own, without antibiotics. And while a small percentage develop serious symptoms, like arthritis or heart disorders, even the vast majority of these get better, the researchers said.

(The entire article is worth reading, although you have to subscribe to read it.) The upshot is, I don't have to worry nearly as much as I had been. Just inspect yourself afterwards, and if you find a tick, pick it off, and watch the area for a few weeks afterwards. To extend Pencil Pusher's remarks, it's more like the clap than AIDS.

[This message has been edited by Alpine Tom (edited 06-13-2001).]

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Check out local lyme support groups for the real scoop on info regarding lyme disease. Most MD's tell the same stuff as drjay4X4 did in an earlier post. I don't have the time to get into the inaccuracies of his post right now; however, I do want people to take this disease seriously.


Bottom line is that tests are not reliable and short course antibiotic treatment does not cure this disease very often. As for the Bulls-Eye rash, recent studies show that less than 30% of lyme patients remember having this rash.


If I have more time later I will share more from the front lines.

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Just thought I'd chime in and add that treating the clothing that you'll be wearing in the outdoors with permethrin is a good idea if you'll be venturing out into tick country. Supposed to last for 6 weeks, and should be a pretty effective combo if you supplement it with Deet based repellents on the skin.

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Have you factored in the increased odds of cancer and birth defects to any future offspring in your cost/benefit analysis there Jay_B?


You ain't gonna catch me dunkin' my clothes in a barrel of PERMETHRIN or dioxin or DDT or any o' dat shit.





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Yeah - the info there definitely makes it sound pretty scary, but I think if you buy the stuff that's formulated to bond to clothing and takes steps to prevent inhaling it, the amount that actually detatches from the clothes and passes through the esterases on your skin and gets into your system will probably be in the sub-zeptomolar range. Not something that I'd apply daily, but if I was going hunting or fishing or generally grubbing around in the underbrush in tick country I'd probably use it on outer layer clothing. Ditto for pants at least if I were climbing in Leavenworth in the springtime.


Thanks for the heads up though. thumbs_up.gif


"The DOD Chemical Protection System:


The Department of Defense (DoD) utilizes a system of two chemical components in conjunction with the field dress uniform. The EPA approved components of this system include the insecticide permethrin and the insect repellent deet (N, N-diethyl-m-tiluarnide) in concentrations less than 33%.


Note: Not all permethrin is blended for the purpose of bonding to fabric. Most permethrin is agricultural which is for pest control on vegetation. Its design purpose is to stick to plants thus protecting the plants. Veterinary products are designed to adhere to animal skins/hair or premises and are not for fabric application. Some permethrin is formulated for treatment of medical conditions such as head lice and scabies. The formulations are not interchangeable mostly because of solvents utilized. Always refer to manufacturers label and use instructions.


Permethrin is virtually non-toxic to humans and no systemic effects have been reported.* In EPA and FDA tests, it was uncommon to have any skin reddening, rash or other irritation. When used as a repellent, permethrin is applied to exterior clothing where it dries and bonds to the cloth fiber. This water-based formula is non-staining, odorless and has exceptional resistance to degradation by sunlight (UV), heat and water. Although permethrin is approved for skin application under certain circumstances such as head lice formulas, it is not applied to skin as a repellent. Permethrin does not bond to skin (stick) and is quickly deactivated by skin's esterase action into inactive compounds. Because of these attributes permethrin offers no repellent benefit on skin. It is only effective when used as a clothing treatment. Deactivation of permethrin on skin occurs in approximately 20 minutes, When placed on clothing it will last 2 to 6 weeks (even up to 1 year with special application) and will even last through weekly launderings. With the long history of success permethrin has achieved, it is best not to second guess these extraordinary results. By following the directions provided on the product you can be assured of results that achieve protection at or near 100%. Any variation of instructions that indicate using less permethrin on clothing will result in diminished performance. Follow the direction exactly and you will be amazed at the performance of this product.


Permethrin Mosquito Tests: The early history of permethrin development involved tests on mosquitoes conducted by the US Army and Air Force. Tests showed that when lightweight uniforms were treated until moist (approximately 3 ounces) the permethrin alone (0. 5% solution) gave 97.7% protection from mosquitoes and 99.9% protection when used in combination with deet (33% solution). Two detergent washings did not diminish mosquito repellent and killing action of permethrin-treated uniforms.


An interesting side note: The effectiveness of permethrin can be shown in the following report highlight that was reported in a very matter of fact statement. During testing in the Everglades, "Mosquitoes were also repelled because of the side-stream effect caused by numerous treated uniforms within the same general location. This required that the test site be moved to locate more mosquitoes!" Now that's performance . . .


Permethrin Tick Tests: Test on ticks conducted in Massachusetts concluded that 100% protection was provided against the Deer tick (Ixodes Scapularis) which is the primary vector of Lyme disease in the Midwest and Northeast. The same outstanding results occurred when testing the Western Black Legged tick, Lone Star tick, American Dog tick and Brown Dog tick. Similar results have been found with other tick species throughout the United States and Europe. Two detergent washings did not diminish repellent killing action of permethrin-treated uniforms. In tests, ticks that crossed only 10 inches of treated fabric fell from the uniform, later dying due to this limited exposure.


Note: Military application of permethrin (Permethrin Arthropod Repellent) varies from civilian application in that 4.5 ounces are applied to the uniform and the remaining contents of the 6 ounce container used to treat mosquito netting. The difference in application also results in increased protection. It is specified that "reapply after six weeks and sixth laundering." The additional 1.5 ounces doubled the 2 to 3 week protection realized from the civilian application of 3 ounces. Full protection is realized by use of permethrin AND application of standard issue repellent approved for skin application (3M Ultrathon)


DEET (N, N-.diethyl-m-tiluamide): is an approved repellent for skin application. Exposure to high concentrations of deet can pose some limited health hazards. At the time concentrations of 33% as provided in the 3M Ultrathon product were chosen by the U.S. Military for its superior performance and high margin of safety. Up until the 3M Ultrathon was chosen the military had been using a 100% deet. It was uncomfortable to wear and easily damaged certain materials synthetic and plastics. Since the 3M Ultrathon introduction, some new developments have been made using deet in special micro encapsulated formulas that have tested quite well and last up to 20 hours between applications against certain insect species. Deet-based products are available in a wide variety of formulas that can address the very specific needs of the individual traveler, outdoors person, family member and even young children. Specific blends with other repellents to repel biting flies are called composites, while others formulas have been added to sunscreen for convenient dual-purpose application.


Early research on deet showed that performance dropped off when concentrations of 35% or higher were tested. As an example, if a 30% deet concentration offers satisfactory repellent action for four hours, an assumption that a 60% deet would last eight hours is not correct. The 60% product may only last about 5 hours. In the use of standard deet formulas, it is more effective to use lower concentrations of deet with more frequent application than to assume the higher concentrations to be longer lasting. They are not. Most brand-name deet-based products already have a deet range from 15% to 33%. Once the threat of insect/tick bite is over, the repellent should be washed off. Deet by itself tested between 85% to 89% effective at repelling ticks (deet does not kill either ticks or mosquitoes) and 97% against mosquitoes.


The DoD system consists of both permethrin treated clothing and deet applied to skin. The use of one without the other will undermine the system and increase the risk of insect or tick bite. Many non-deet products are available on the market and are not part of the DoD protection system. They show ineffective repellent performance and are not recommended for any situation where disease transmission is a threat."



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They just had a segment on King5 about it... they said it was a natural repellant made from chrysanthemums. But alpinfox's link said it's synthetic...


not that it really matters...

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HighClimb said:


that sucks.... i was beaten by a tick last saturday.


What a Wimp. How can you call yourself a Man?

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