markinore Posted May 20, 2005 Share Posted May 20, 2005 Yesterday, researchers in South Korea announced that they had successfully established stem cell lines through therapeutic cloning using DNA from specific individuals who might benefit from this approach. Most of these DNA donors had spinal cord injuries (think Christopher Reeves). This is an incredible breakthrough, because the cells generated from the stem cell lines will be immunologically identical to the donors, and therefore there won't be any rejection if they are implanted. While South Korea is racing ahead in this technology, Bush's Taliban-like restrictions on NIH funding will mean that we lag behind. Oh, well, our scientists can always pray for cures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon Posted May 20, 2005 Share Posted May 20, 2005 No, our scientists will be looking for new careers since they have cut funding to the NIH by over half. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dechristo Posted May 20, 2005 Share Posted May 20, 2005 People will go where ever to receive treatment they can afford. Pharmaceuticals from da Canucks. Cancer and dental treatments from de Meskins. Reminds of the late'60's when girls would go "visit their aunt" in New York returning a couple weeks later surrounded by whispers of "abortion". Patience, patients. Take a number and await your turn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonehead Posted May 20, 2005 Share Posted May 20, 2005 My first inclination is that the US will lag other countries that have no moral objections to stem cell research. Yet, somehow I don't believe that will be the major problem. The rich will always have access to best healthcare and medical developments even if they have to access it from other countries. Francis Futuyama in his book,Our Posthuman Future, sees these developments as a threat itself to the foundation of liberal democracy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mec Posted May 20, 2005 Share Posted May 20, 2005 Is it thanks to W, or thanks to all of the Americans who voted for him? It's hard to blame W for everything when over 50% of Americans voted for him, and knew his general stance on things like this. So I say, let's blame the conservatives out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dechristo Posted May 20, 2005 Share Posted May 20, 2005 Rightee, Rightee, bo-bitey banana fanna fo fightee fee fie Almighty Rightee The Blame Game Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted May 20, 2005 Share Posted May 20, 2005 A bill is going through Congress right now that would loosen the restrictions on stem cell research. It has 200 co-sponsers and enough GOP members may vote for it to make it veto-proof. Bush has threatened to veto it - that would be his first for either term!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foraker Posted May 20, 2005 Share Posted May 20, 2005 Is it thanks to W, or thanks to all of the Americans who voted for him? It's hard to blame W for everything when over 50% of Americans voted for him, and knew his general stance on things like this. So I say, let's blame the conservatives out there. I don't know if you can all those people voted *for* Bush. In my years as being a voter, I don't think I've voted for any of the bottom feeders that got nominated. Rather, I was voting against more creepy bottom feeder. I'm willing to bet a fair number of Bush voters were simply voting against Kerry and not necessarily *for* Bush and all his policies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratboy Posted May 20, 2005 Share Posted May 20, 2005 Doesn't matter why someone voted for W (or anyone else). If they ultimately placed their vote for an individual, then they supported that individual and their beliefs. If you don't want to support any of the choices, don't place a vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knelson Posted May 20, 2005 Share Posted May 20, 2005 ...Rather, I was voting against more creepy bottom feeder. I'm willing to bet a fair number of Bush voters were simply voting against Kerry and not necessarily *for* Bush and all his policies. ...which means they voted FOR Bush. I voted for Kerry for the exact reasons you noted: I disliked Bush's policies/friends more than Kerry's. But at least I'll sack up and admit that I voted *for* him. -kurt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foraker Posted May 20, 2005 Share Posted May 20, 2005 Sorry, I can't step up and say I voted for someone, wholeheartedly, if, upon consideration, I dislike 75% of one guy's policies but only %60 of the other guys. However, not voting is just stupid. If you want the radical fringes of the political parties in this country to dominate the agenda, sure, go right ahead, don't vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisT Posted May 20, 2005 Share Posted May 20, 2005 Never fear - the tide will turn again as it always does...and hopefully we'll put a female in the White House this time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knelson Posted May 20, 2005 Share Posted May 20, 2005 Y'know... that brings up a new idea in voting. How about we all get 5 votes, and we can split them up however we want them between the candidates? In reality... that would probably better reflect the true feelings of the people. Makes too much sense though - kinda like the new WA primary format we voted into place which the GOP is now trying to get thrown out. -kurt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camilo Posted May 20, 2005 Share Posted May 20, 2005 You people are idiots. This whole stem cell/cloning research is just a THEORY. It hasn't been proven, so it doesn't deserve any funding whatsoever. I'm donating my money and lobbying the government to support Intelligent Design stem cells. The whole process is so complex and filled with ethical dilemmas that only something smarter than any human (not God though - I never said God!) can develop it. Same goes for the rest of science. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
selkirk Posted May 20, 2005 Share Posted May 20, 2005 Never fear - the tide will turn again as it always does...and hopefully we'll put a female in the White House this time. Yep, Condi in 2008, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barjor Posted May 20, 2005 Share Posted May 20, 2005 I think Bush is stupid and I know USA have better people for the job as president then him. But I can live with the fact that he is stupid, everyone have a right to be stupid. What I have a really hard time to accept is that more then 50% of the voters thought he was good the first 4 years and re-elected him. That is freaking me out about America and where we are heading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dechristo Posted May 20, 2005 Share Posted May 20, 2005 Doesn't matter why someone voted for W (or anyone else). If they ultimately placed their vote for an individual, then they supported that individual and their beliefs. If you don't want to support any of the choices, don't place a vote. ...which means they voted FOR Bush. This is a spurious and prejudiced maledict. Are you not familiar with the regrettable compromises this world consistently forces upon us with which we all must live; are you unacquainted with the association to darkness that is the result of choosing the construed "lesser of two evils"? A poor analogy for you: You and your loved ones are taken prisoner by an insurmontable force. You are given a choice: 1) Your wife, daughters, sons, brothers, sisters, and parents will be systematically raped, tortured, mutilated, and murdered while you are forced to watch. After, unmolested, you will be set free. Or, 2) You and your loved ones will be sodomized, forced to perform fellatio (swallowing every drop), and french the anus of every one of the twenty militants holding you and your loved ones captive; w/o latex protection. After, you and all your loved ones will be set free. Subsequently, you find, you've all contracted the AIDS virus. Now, all of your loved ones' relations have been infected as well as an expanding circle of contacts can expect a protracted, difficult death. By your method of assessment, quoted above, you will not be known as some one who had to make a hard choice and live with it, but as the buttfucking, cum-guzzling, cocksucker that condemned an entire community. As I stated, a poor analogy, butt I took a stab at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bootsy Posted May 22, 2005 Share Posted May 22, 2005 We're kicking S. Korea's ass on creationism! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knelson Posted May 22, 2005 Share Posted May 22, 2005 A poor analogy for you: You and your loved ones are taken prisoner by an insurmontable force. You are given a choice: 1) Your wife, daughters, sons, brothers, sisters, and parents will be systematically raped, tortured, mutilated, and murdered while you are forced to watch. After, unmolested, you will be set free. Or, 2) You and your loved ones will be sodomized, forced to perform fellatio (swallowing every drop), and french the anus of every one of the twenty militants holding you and your loved ones captive; w/o latex protection. After, you and all your loved ones will be set free. Subsequently, you find, you've all contracted the AIDS virus. Now, all of your loved ones' relations have been infected as well as an expanding circle of contacts can expect a protracted, difficult death. By your method of assessment, quoted above, you will not be known as some one who had to make a hard choice and live with it, but as the buttfucking, cum-guzzling, cocksucker that condemned an entire community. As I stated, a poor analogy, butt I took a stab at it. Yes... in your analogy, I would be known as a buttfucking, cum-guzzling, cocksucker that condemned an entire community. But I am the one that has to live with my decision, one way or another. What others think of me really has no place in the decision making process - and shouldn't for most folks, although I know that's not true. Good analogy though, however you missed one: I'd also be an ass-kisser along with the other things. You missed the frenching the anus thing - in polite terms, that would make me an ass-kisser. -kurt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cj001f Posted May 22, 2005 Share Posted May 22, 2005 This is a spurious and prejudiced maledict. How is labeling someone a bush voter a curse upon them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairweather Posted May 22, 2005 Share Posted May 22, 2005 Is it thanks to W, or thanks to all of the Americans who voted for him? It's hard to blame W for everything when over 50% of Americans voted for him, and knew his general stance on things like this. So I say, let's blame the conservatives out there. Let me know when you find a candidate with whom you agree 100% on every issue. Until then, I officially declare you a fringe moron. BTW: Bush's policy (which I believe is misguided) doesn't effect stem cell research in the private sector. I'm not sure what % of the work is being conducted there vs govt sponsored/financed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crux Posted May 22, 2005 Share Posted May 22, 2005 I officially declare you a fringe moron. BTW: ...I'm not sure what %. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayB Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 It seems to me that the essential conjecture here is that were it not for the restrictions placed on stem cell research, all important discoveries in the field would occur in the United States. Maybe, maybe not. I actually think that the only advantage that the US has had relative to the rest of the world for the past 50 is the climate of opportunity that we've created, which has enabed the US to siphon off the best and brightest scientists and graduate students from the rest of the world - especially Asia. Now that most Asian countries can offer their scientists the opportunity to pursue a career that's at least as lucrative and promising as anything that they'd have a chance to partake of in the United States, I think that the disparity in the pace of innovation that we've been able to exploit to our advantage for the past half-century will rapidly dissapear. My advice - get used to reading about significant discoveries occuring outside of the United States in this and many other fields - no matter which party is in charge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cj001f Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 Sadly, what you say is true Jay. The US has made being a plumber more lucrative than a physicisit, an acountant more lucrative than an astrophysicist. As for the former part - are you arguing that governmental restricitons aren't the only factor impeding growth? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archenemy Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 I've been to S. Korea. Trust me, we are not trailing them on anything. The stem cell war is obviously not settled, and it will be passed in the future if that is what people continue to demand. Especially if they are willing to pay for it (financially, morally, whatever). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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