SneakySix Posted March 28, 2005 Share Posted March 28, 2005 Im looking into getting a new clothing system for my upper body, atm I have a North Face softshell that I used with a Sierra Designs fleece, and then an older SD hard shell. Does anybody have any suggestions as to hard shells I should look at? I have been looking at some of the North Face stuff, my buddy has one and he seems to be pretty pleased with it. Im also looking at the ID Dolomite for my underlayer for warmth. Im mainly going to be using the system in the cascades/coast range but id like to be able to change it up for internation al stuff, any suggestions would be appreciated thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonthomp Posted March 28, 2005 Share Posted March 28, 2005 I have been happy so far with my Arc'Teryx Theta LT. Very lightweight (G.tex XCR, laminated seams/zippers) and has performed well (breathes and protects) in a variety of conditions from snowy, windy days to rainy, windy days. I haven't had it long enough to know it's durability. The only disadvantage is the price--spendy--though I found a pretty good deal through Sierra Trading. And if the jacket lasts as long or longer than the N.Face one I just retired (15+ years), I'll feel it was money well-spent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whistlepunk Posted March 28, 2005 Share Posted March 28, 2005 I've been in some nasty wind and rain in my Arcteryx Theta SL (Paclite and XCR). It breathes pretty damn well, but I'm careful not to wear too much under while on the move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willstrickland Posted March 28, 2005 Share Posted March 28, 2005 Durability = weight. That is simplistic, but at the core of things, that's the tradeoff. Nevertheless, I've not had a durability problem with even superlight shells. Back in about '96 I bought a Marmot 3 layer G-tex (this was way before Paclite and XCR) shell that was their ultralight option at the time. It weighs around 20oz. I wore it everyday for 5months on the AT, worked in it for a year in a hoods in the woods program, and still use it as my hardshell. Point being, even the light stuff is reasonably tough. Difference in brands is going to be mainly cut and features. These days the fabrics are the same, hell they are probably stitched in the same factory in China. That said, Arc'teryx, IMO has the nicest features and cut. I've been very happy with my Marmot. You will pay handsomely for their 9(rc-terx) attention to detail. One thing to consider: Will you be using this shell with a harness often? If so, you might look specfically for a model with a shorter length. I'd say bottom line: Brand is insignificant. Find one in the weight/features range/price you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cj001f Posted March 28, 2005 Share Posted March 28, 2005 I have a deadbird Sirius that´s performed well the world over. Cut´s kind of shitty for a climbing jacket, ends irritatingly mid harness for me. The newer Patagonia shells are very nice and a bit more progressive than the arcteryx stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K_Y_L_E Posted March 28, 2005 Share Posted March 28, 2005 I have an MEC hardshell (zenith I think, $282 US) that I am very happy with. It is similar to ArcTeryx. Very high quality and tough as nails as well. It weighs about 26oz though. I also have a Mtn Hardwear Manticore hybrid that I am pleased with so far. I have not taken it up to the hills yet though. It is light-ish (22oz), comfortable, and allows for lots of movement. ArcTeryx Theta SL at 15oz and the LT is 21oz would be pretty sweet, but you will pay for it ( you do get what you pay for with arcTeryx). The theta AR is 23oz BTW. If you are interested in the Manticore check out backcountry.com and campmor. good luck Kyle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SneakySix Posted March 28, 2005 Author Share Posted March 28, 2005 thanks for all the input, ive been looking at some of the ArcTeryx stuff, kinda pricey but hey you only live once right? The hardshell is going to mainly be used for mountaineering, so roped up glacier travel, mixed climbing etc, so yes a harness will almost always be worn. What about the ID Dolomite udnerneath a ArcTeryx Theta SL? You think that would be adequate for Cascades/Coast range climbing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenderfour Posted March 28, 2005 Share Posted March 28, 2005 I've been really happy with the Patagucci stretch element jacket that I picked up on the cheap from reioutlet. I have a simple windpro fleece that I usually layer under it and a Feathered Friends Helios jacket for when it gets cold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whistlepunk Posted March 28, 2005 Share Posted March 28, 2005 Every body is different dude. Try that combo and if it works, you're phat. If it sucks, try something else. It appears you're on the right road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomtom Posted March 28, 2005 Share Posted March 28, 2005 OR had some Paclite Hardshells onsale for less than $100. Call the main store for details. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanielHarro Posted March 29, 2005 Share Posted March 29, 2005 There is nothing better than Arc'Teryx, Alpha and Beta coats are super nice. Good luck and spend lots of money! Ouch! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbconlin Posted April 3, 2005 Share Posted April 3, 2005 TNF is on a downhill slide toward the "fashion" category. I would stay away from anything they make. They are not oriented toward the extreme. Check out the Arcteryx hybrid jacket. It has hardshell hood and shoulders, softshell body. Pricey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonathanjarrett Posted April 4, 2005 Share Posted April 4, 2005 My advice is no hardshell at all. The only reason a hardshell really works is the DWR treatment applied at the factory. That is what truly provides protection from rain. The water needs to bead up and roll off. If it doesn't, the outer nylon becomes soaked and the garment is essentially impermeable. Your sweat from the inside makes you soaked. As well once it is soaked it takes forever for the jacket to dry. My solution is an ultralight shell treated with Nikwax's DWR treatment. It keeps you very dry, breaths way better than any fancy GTX membrane, and the nylon itself drys exceptionally fast even if it becomes soaked. If it is raining so hard that does not work, you need an umbrella...seriously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill_Simpkins Posted April 4, 2005 Share Posted April 4, 2005 I agree. The hardshells get soaked anyways. If the weather is marginal or you are on an extended trip, bring a ultralite rain jacket, like a plastic poncho or small totally waterproof rain pullover or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K_Y_L_E Posted April 4, 2005 Share Posted April 4, 2005 Check out the 3m RainShield stuff. Waterproof and supposedly breathable. Not plastic but a paper-like fabric material. Weighs only ounces. My jacket with hood is 6-8 ounces. Downsides are neon yellow and it is squeeky (which could get annoying), also probably not super durable. Not sure I am ready to replace my hardshell with it just yet but I may give it a shot on my next trip. Take my softshell and that as a backup. I think it is the same stuff they make bio suits out of. Super cheap too. Mine was like $12 on sale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cj001f Posted April 5, 2005 Share Posted April 5, 2005 My advice is no hardshell at all. The only reason a hardshell really works is the DWR treatment applied at the factory. That is what truly provides protection from rain. The water needs to bead up and roll off. If it doesn't, the outer nylon becomes soaked and the garment is essentially impermeable. Your sweat from the inside makes you soaked. As well once it is soaked it takes forever for the jacket to dry. My solution is an ultralight shell treated with Nikwax's DWR treatment. It keeps you very dry, breaths way better than any fancy GTX membrane, and the nylon itself drys exceptionally fast even if it becomes soaked. If it is raining so hard that does not work, you need an umbrella...seriously. You are an idiot. Travel to places where it pisses rain and watch the people with non Goretex jackets cry. Ask a Kiwi - they only buy Goretex. For a very good reason. You ever tried using an umbrella in 40mph wind? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonathanjarrett Posted April 5, 2005 Share Posted April 5, 2005 You call me an idiot, but you are the one who has been completely brainwashed by the waterproof-breathable industry. REI and the like have swindled the public into believing that if it not G-Tex it is crap. Gore-Tex hats, gloves, and shoes exemplify what I mean. There are people who buy the G-Tex version of an all leather boot because they actually think that it will keep their foot drier. Come on! Apparently you are unable to think for yourself and experiment with alternatives. As for the umbrella comment, it was merely a farcical reference to the fact that if the suggestion that I made doesn't work, you need to start filling sandbags to stop the impending flood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cj001f Posted April 6, 2005 Share Posted April 6, 2005 You call me an idiot, but you are the one who has been completely brainwashed by the waterproof-breathable industry. REI and the like have swindled the public into believing that if it not G-Tex it is crap. Gore-Tex hats, gloves, and shoes exemplify what I mean. There are people who buy the G-Tex version of an all leather boot because they actually think that it will keep their foot drier. Come on! Apparently you are unable to think for yourself and experiment with alternatives. As for the umbrella comment, it was merely a farcical reference to the fact that if the suggestion that I made doesn't work, you need to start filling sandbags to stop the impending flood. I´ve owned alternatives. They don´t work as well. Goretex boots work better when the waterproofing on a leather boot wears out - which is likely on a long trip (weeks/months). I´ve watched people with alternative products in jackets get miserable in a prolonged downpour. As for the impending flood, sometimes you don´t have a choice. Have fun in rain and 40mph wind in your Schoeller Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonathanjarrett Posted April 6, 2005 Share Posted April 6, 2005 I think we have raised an important debate about the merits of water-proof breathable fabrics. Obviously opinion is as important as science. So as to not mire this discussion in our personal debate I am going to start a new thread in the climbers section so that others can weigh in with their thoughts also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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