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Lambone

Climber Dog's

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Carry your puppy everywhere and feed it TG Stout [laf] and dont forget the plastic cave lair so it feels at home in the gym [laf]

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Habituate your mutt to other mutts and to people --especially children. Leash train it, and use the leash. Then leave your dog at home when you go climbing. If dogs were meant to go climbing, they'd have opposable thumbs.

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quote:

Originally posted by Mr. Chips:

Alpine, dogs have no business being there. I have seen ignorant fucking people bring their dogs up to very sensitive alpine environments and seen them tearing up the fragile flowers and soil while engaged in pursuit of wild birds, causing them undue stress and burning their energy stores off. Again, no leash and the couple found it endearing and exciting. This time I said something, not being nasty, just explained what was really happening there. Their reaction = clueless and careless. . .

I agreed with all you said until this point. I take one of my poochs skiing with me all the time. He neither chases other animals (mostly because we never see any) nor does he tear up any fauna. If you meant alpine environment sans snow, I might agree but with the ever-present "it depends". I've seen just as many if not more careless humanoids tearing up fragile environs then dogs.

 

Basically, it all comes down to responsibility. The other folks in the woods may or may not be into dogs. They may or may not dig being licked by your mutt or have their leg humped by a dog any more than having your leg humped by DFA. Too often people adopt the narcissistic attitude of "dont like it leave" and conflict ensues.

 

I've been at Smith before and climbing morning glory wall as two rottweilers tied to a bush started freaking out on each other. Extremely disconcerting. The owners screamed at them to stop but nothing happened. Its a drag to be climbing and listen to some dog freak out. be responsible--if your pooch is not socialized to be cool in those environments dont take it.

 

On multipitch routes I leave my dogs at home. The peace of mind not having to worry about them or anyone they may bother is precious to me. I got enough trouble trying to place pro on that run-out 5.4. Cragging? I might take my dog. Depends on where and when.

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quote:

Originally posted by rbw1966:

They may or may not dig being licked by your mutt or have their leg humped by a dog any more than having your leg humped by DFA. Too often people adopt the narcissistic attitude of "dont like it leave" and conflict ensues.

Oh ho ho ho hoooo, you underestimate the intoxicating effect of Dr. Flash Amazing's smoldering, subtle-yet-in-your-face sex-appeal. It's a rare trip to Smith that doesn't involve kicking a few crazed crag-betties (and the occasional misguided hardman) to the curb as they try to get a piece of the DFA. Sad what happens to seemingly normal people sometimes, but it's what one must live with when one is Dr. Flash Amazing.

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I've got a dog that doesn't bark (unless there is a real issue, and then if I tell her to shut up, she does.) She doesn't mooch. Feed them only from their bowl and do not allow others to feed them at all. When I get to the top of a crag, she shows up there too. Doesn't have a anxiety attack when I leave the ground. Can get up and down any 3rd class ground on her own, (especially if she has to to get to her frisbee.) I can't throw her frisbee off cliffs though. The last time I did, she took a 20 foot grounder and brought the damned thing back up. I don't bring her when I expect a lot of people to be around because she wants to be everyone's pal, and I get worried that she will jump in their rig and go home with them.

 

I think that a good dog comes down to two points.

 

The breed. You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. Some breeds are fucking obnoxious, stupid, anxious, etc.

 

Consistency. Just like kids, if you don't tolerate bad behavior, they won't make a habit of it. When they jump up on you, step on their back feet. They quit.

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My dog sucks at the crags, or on the trail.

 

-

 

He has this problem with other dogs, and will try and take them down at all costs. He has never had a problem with people, but has serious separation anxiety, but he was from the shelter so we have no idea what type of environment he came from. That being said, he stays in the garage when we go climbing or hiking.

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quote:

Originally posted by scot'teryx:

He has this problem with other dogs, and will try and take them down at all costs. He has never had a problem with people, but has serious separation anxiety, but he was from the shelter so we have no idea what type of environment he came from. That being said, he stays in the garage when we go climbing or hiking.

... hence this photo of the pooch out on the trail. [laf]

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My dog loves to go hiking, and makes a great companion on solo days. She starts to poop out at about 20 km, 25 km would probably be her maximum. That is something you have to take into consideration.

 

I do take her cragging, if I am going with a group where there will be somebody able to keep an eye on her.

 

The breed makes a difference in temperament, but more important is the socialising and obedience.

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I agree that breed, temperament, training, and socialization of the hound are all critical to a pup's being welcome at the crag. Retrosaurus made some critical points; I'll add to them and go a bit further.

 

Some breeds, like most retrivers, are happy sitting and waiting for Mr Master to come back down..others go insane (translated as NOISY) if they're tied to a tree and forced to wait. Separation anxiety (previously noted) causes similar behavior. Herding, pointing, and foxing breeds (and most terriers) would not fit inot the 'mellow' category very often.

 

Socialization is key, too. On several occasions now I've been one the first people on Theater of Shaddows, a popular multipitch route at City of Rocks and come back to my pack at the base, only to find some seriously aggressive dogs protecting MY pack from me whilst their owners were a few pitches up. As I'm pretty comfy with dogs I had a decision to make...am I going to beat the dog senseless to get my pack (thus incurring personal liability for myself) or will I risk getting bit by the savage beast (thus incurring liability for the dog owner.) As ladies were present on each of those occasions I took the high road and retrieved the packs without the big stick in hand. As it turned out each time, no bites, but there was a lot of posturing by myself and the ill-willed mutts.

 

Training and temperament: If you're not experienced with dog training, do some research, or pay to talk with a real expert about your needs and expectations for the animal. Some dogs are simply not genetically up to the task of hanging out and waiting quietly no matter how much time you spend training and socializing them...it's a fact. If you have the luxury of picking a dog from a litter you can often spot the ones with a laid-back personality. Look for the one that quietly stays in the back of the pack, wagging it's tail, waiting to be noticed. Make sure it's alert and healthy (not sick.) This technique may work at the pound too with a few modifications.

 

A good solution: find a babysitter. preferably one who will come climbing with you and hang out with the dog and sunbath, read a book, meditate, or something else constructive.

 

another consideration: get a dog with a short coat (hair). it makes it much more comfy for the pooch on hot days in the sun.

 

and remember: if you make a wrong choice or slack off with training and socialization in the early years of the dog's life it's pretty difficult to part with the beast, no matter how anti-social it is or becomes.

 

Lambone, if you've already got the dog you'll need to make sure the dog is friendly to everyone it meets...it kinda rules out the guard dog training. The worst thing that could happen is to have a dog that is protective of your gear rip into some unsuspecting kid while you're on a route and out of control of the dog.

 

[ 11-12-2002, 05:54 PM: Message edited by: Thinker ]

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My dog is aggro with everyone and will bite at first chance. He barks and will chew on left out packs and ropes especially. I take him climbing all the time and leave him out [Roll Eyes]

 

Seriously the things I am trying are introducing it to as many other dogs and people as possible. Make sure the shots are up to date! Mine are. Then I want to make sure the critter is obedient as possible for it's brain capacity. Sit, stay, HEY! (when he's doing bad), and not being aggro are my goals. Barking is something I dont think I can eliminate but might come with the breed. My dog chases the cat all day long around my house but is pretty friendly. About the jumping on your leg comments- I dont mind it that much right now but as soon as someone complains I will make the beast comply. He's already pretty damn good now at the "HEY!" command which he translates as listen buster you just fucked up! So if I was to say HEY! he usually sits down or chills out.

 

As far as dook. I clean it up. Also I take dog dishes and food out in my pack if I am out very long. I dont feed my dog (okay not all the time but 90%) out of anything but his bowl. I am teaching him now that there is a cat bowl and his bowl. He's having a hard time with that one though..

 

Dogs kick ass and can save you from avies I hear. [Wink]

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I briefly knew this scab who would brings her dog onto glaciers, and attach it to the rope via a prusik on it's collar, in case it fell in, you know. Fucking scab.

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There have been lots of good points here. If you can train your dog so that it behaves properly, there is room at most crags for you to bring your dog - most of the time. I'm less inclined to say the same thing about mountain climbing or ski touring, because I have yet to see anybody bring a dog on such an outing where the dog didn't become at least a bit of a problem for everyone else in the group, but maybe there are some well-behaved superdogs out there and I just haven't met them.

 

One point I might add is that you have to understand that even if yours is the best behaved dog in the world, if you bring it climbing on a regular basis you WILL be causing a problem for SOMEBODY at SOME TIME. Even if your dog lies asleep at the bottom of the crag and doesn't lift his head, somebody's badly behaved dog is going to go nuts or somebody may have an irrational fear of dogs, or some dog lover is going to freak out because it is a sunny day and they are convinced that you are a bad pet-owner to leave your (perfectly comfortable) dog in the sun. What counts in these situations is how you handle the matter.

 

A second point I might add is that many dogs who are otherwise very mellow become territorial when you tie them up. When confined by the leash and left without their owner around, they may feel vulnerable and get snappy, but you may not know this until a problem arises.

 

Thirdly, I will say that I always enjoy it when I meet a dog who behaves as Mitch describes, but I do not enjoy it when I meet three of them.

 

[ 11-12-2002, 06:41 PM: Message edited by: mattp ]

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I think another important issue to consider is the neutering of males. I've know a few dog owners who refused to neuter their dogs, because they felt it was the responsibility of other owners to spay their bitches (couldn't reisist [Razz] ). While this may in theory be a good idea to prevent unwanted puppies (if everyone follows it), it is not a good idea for male dog interactions.

 

One friend of mine complained how his dog always got in fights with other dogs that still had their balls. I asked him why he didn't get his dog fixed and he responded that his dog wouldn't be able to go hiking with him anymore [Confused] . As if a dog needs its balls to hike and climb.

 

Dogs are territorial and male dogs will fight if they still have the jewels. If people need a studly dog, perhaps they should train it to perform the marital duties as well.

 

[ 11-12-2002, 06:45 PM: Message edited by: E-rock ]

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Oh yeah caveman had a good point about introducing your pup to other dogs. It pays off big time. Take your dog to the dog park often from an early age and see how it interacts. It's fun to watch and your dog will love you for it.

 

[ 11-12-2002, 07:05 PM: Message edited by: E-rock ]

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Cool thanks for the thoughts yall, by the way...

 

She is a 3 month old Border Collie/ Great Pyrenese that we fell in love with at th Human Society in Vancouver, Wa. She seemed super cool. We pick her up tommorow, can't wait!

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Righton my best ice climbing bud has a border collie mix that he picked up at the humane society that was roaming highway 20 in winter. The best damn behaved dog you ever saw. He's really good to her. Never follows us on ice climbs and shit. The only bad thing I ever heard her doing was trying to climb up the Silent Running route this summer while they were rapping. Ninja climbing dog ! [Eek!] But that was admittedly the owners fault....

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Lambone...

 

Border collie/GP mix. You NEED to get the book "The other end of the leash" by Patricia McConnell (or something like that) both those breeds are discussed in some depth. there are traits of both that would make the not the best cragging partners. (also my personal opinion from owning border collie mixes as a youth on the ranch) but perhaps good training is the answer.

 

I have a boxer now. she is super mellow from her prior life before I got her kept in a small area (kennel and crate for breeding purposes) she does not bark (debarked, but her voice did come back) super patient (not a breed trait) and very very devoted (I am the center of her world - a breed trait)

 

she does not stray when we are hiking, does not chase things (except squirrels at greenlake) and LOVES to be in the woods.

 

BUT: I would be devastated if she fell off a cliff, or down an embankment and got hurt, or got scared and ran off at a climb, or got hit by rock fall etc.. etc... it would be my fault. Once we accept a dog into our life, they are our responsibility. they are like a three year old child that never grows up.

 

Therefore I leave her at home if I'm gone cragging for the day, or with a sitter if I'm setting out for a weekend of adventure that gains more than a couple thousand feet.

 

Oh, and although she has one of the shortest coats know to the dog world short of those funny naked dogs, she HATES heat. We were over in Mazama this summer and she just melted into a puddle of unhappy dogness. Maybe that is just boxers, but I felt really bad...

 

[ 11-12-2002, 10:09 PM: Message edited by: icegirl ]

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Checked out that book on the web...looks cool, I'll have to take a closer look. There are so many puppy books out there, it's rediculous...

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So far, as a dog owner of the past, and a dog owner of a "rescue" dog, this is the best book I've read (and being a self proclaimed academic, I've read many of them) It really seems the most "right on". I've adopted her style, and we are very happy. So many of those books are scary, the Alpha DOG dominance ones especially.

 

I have read parts of it several times now...

 

I used to train horses. The animals talk to you. I could help even ones that were horribly abused. it is about understanding that horses, dogs and most animals have a different language than humans. accepting that, and working to undertand it.

 

[ 11-12-2002, 10:03 PM: Message edited by: icegirl ]

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they are used as such because of their tremendous devotion to their human counterparts. if their human climbs up a wall and leaves them, I would worry that they would be upset... if not because of the "leaving" but because they could not keep an eye on you and protect you.

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yeah, I think that is right... if you don't have someone to keep them company...

and my dog, it would have to be someone she knew and accepted and trusted, or all they would be worth is keeping her watered and from running off...

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I am a new dog owner. I've had dogs before, when I was young, but never during my climbing days. Of course, I want to take my dog out doors with me, climbing and/or otherwise. But I have also been very annoyed by other peoples dogs at crags in the past.

 

Does anybody have any thoughts or tips on how to train your pup to be a good crag dog? Or how about high in the hills? What are some do's and don't's based on your experience?

 

All opinions are welcome, but I'd prefer if this didn't turn into an argument about whether people should bring their dogs climbing or not.

 

Cheers [big Drink]

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