Jump to content
  • Announcements

    • olyclimber

      WELCOME TO THE CASCADECLIMBERS.COM FORUMS   02/03/18

      We have upgraded to new forum software as of late last year, and it makes everything here so much better!  It is now much easier to do pretty much anything, including write Trip Reports, sell gear, schedule climbing related events, and more. There is a new reputation system that allows for positive contributors to be recognized,  it is possible to tag content with identifiers, drag and drop in images, and it is much easier to embed multimedia content from Youtube, Vimeo, and more.  In all, the site is much more user friendly, bug free, and feature rich!   Whether you're a new user or a grizzled cascadeclimbers.com veteran, we think you'll love the new forums. Enjoy!
Sign in to follow this  
Anna

I've been humbled

Recommended Posts

quote:

Originally posted by Fence Sitter:

i didn't find outer space particularly challenging and it protected easily... i trust taht when someone tells me they are experienced at climbing hard 10's multi-pitch and i am comfortable with the same...but mabe i am jsut a rare person that values honesty...
[Roll Eyes]

Fair enough. Each persons level of challenge is different. For me any multi-pitch is a serious enough endeavour to need to know your partner. I'm not saying they need to be ultra competent, I just need to know where I stand that day. If I am trusting someone to build an anchor to hang my ass off, then I want to see them demonstrate that before I am 50m off the ground. [big Grin]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

quote:

didnt' he say that she equalized her anchor so that if one piece failed, all failed?

Ummm...no I think it was obviously the LACK of equalization that caused it to fail.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

quote:

Originally posted by Fence Sitter:

didnt' he say that she equalized her anchor so that if one piece failed, all failed?
[Confused]

are you talking about what JK said about what happened at smith in may????

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

quote:

Originally posted by shredmaximus:

quote:

didnt' he say that she equalized her anchor so that if one piece failed, all failed?

Ummm...no I think it was obviously the LACK of equalization that caused it to fail.

Ok I was trying to stay out of this for a while, but what the hell...

 

I think that it was jk who said she had built a TR anchor that was sketchy, ie one piece fail=all fail.

 

Why is it obvious that a lack of Equilization caused failure? [Confused] If the pieces were good, then any single piece should have held her.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well it seems (SNOWBOY) that some other people besides myself and CHIPS do understand what we were talking about.

 

Once again, forget about being rude or arrogant, It has nothing to do with it. NOTHING. What we are talking about is,

 

Know thy self and know thy partner

 

If you can't acept that at face value and process the notion in a usefull way...well then...I guess we'll read about ya in the obituaries.

 

It's that simple, sorry was that rude? [Frown]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

personaly when I screw up big time I would rather some one just tell me about it straight up. even if it does make me cry. I am not a fan of being politicaly correct, and some times the truth hurts.

 

granted, not everyone is like me [Razz]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Muffy the Wanker Sprayer said it perfect:

 

"I hold it as my responsability to my self and my climbing partners to represent my ability and experience as honestly as possible"

 

well said, this is infact what I'm are talking about here. It seemed I was on my own on this notion, but i guess not, very good.

 

You can take mule to water, but you can't make him drink it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

quote:

Originally posted by Tyrone Shoes:

Well it seems (SNOWBOY) that some other people besides myself and CHIPS do understand what we were talking about.

 

Once again, forget about being rude or arrogant, It has nothing to do with it. NOTHING. What we are talking about is,

 

Know thy self and know thy partner

 

If you can't acept that at face value and process the notion in a usefull way...well then...I guess we'll read about ya in the obituaries.

 

It's that simple, sorry was that rude?
[Frown]

Well Mr Shoes, I think the way a message is delivered is important. Do you think Anna really got anything from your message? I don't, not from the way she responded to you. I don't know if she got anything from what any of us said though?

 

No, that wasn't rude at all. [Razz]

 

Have you climbed with Anna?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Anna, go to the Royal Columns at the Tieton

River near Yakima Wa. There are a bunch or easy routes. The anasite is solid and takes nets and hexes like a dream.

 

I have bean climbing almost 10 years and still get verry frustated sometimes. Some days your head is together and some days it's not. If it was easy it wouldn't be rewarding.

 

Knowing when to back off is the most inportant thing. "Aways better to do too little than too much"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well Snowboy, I think Anna took it the wrong way and failed to extract and process the message.

 

Over confidence kills, I've seen it in aviation more than once.

 

If you know anything about flight training, particularly military trainers, you would know the best instructors are assholes.

 

They are asshole becuase they allow you to make stupid mistakes only once so you can fly again another day. Yes, they are rude.

 

Why do you think Army Sergeants are such pricks?

They are trained to train you to stay among the living.

 

I'm sory if my application of aviation doctrine directed towards Anna was rude, but if she persues a career in aviation, she will meet much worse than me as a rooky pilot. Particularly in the north. That's life, the way it is. What else can I say.

 

No I have never climbed with Anna, this fact is completly irrelevant to this entire discussion.

 

Besides, since when did this forum grow manners, I'm not personaly atacking Anna. She is probably a great person. More reason to give Frank straight forward advise.

 

Trask on the other hand... well, if I could I would personaly Neuter him. I could do it so he wouldn't even feel it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

.....the ill-trained novices that climb without having a clue, and say things like "I should read more books" when they touch death without knowing it and walk away."

 

I did not walk away that easy...this will haunt me the rest of my life.

 

I'm done climbing. After reading these posts, not to mention the near disaster that I walked away from, I just feel like my heart isn't in it anymore. When I lived in Montana, I TRed or followed all of the time and I loved it. It wasn't till I moved out here that I wanted to try my hand at leading. Everyone was always so encouraging so I figured that I could learn to do it. I guess I will have to say it again to drive it home-I'm NOT properly trained, I AM an idiot when it comes to setting anchors, and it doesn't really look like I am ever going to have the chance to learn what with the time I can invest into it and climbing with partners who turn the other cheek or won't be honest to my face(I'm not talking about you shred). I hardly know anything about trad and I am a beginner at it, I have expressed that to everyone that I have climbed with, I don't know what the hell SK is talking about, and I don't think I want to learn anymore...I just don't want that responsibility no matter how good I could have gotten.

 

I DID NOT put anyone else's life in danger...that is exactly why I decided to back the fuck off.

 

Thanks JK for breaking my heart...I will remember it always.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Anna,

most of the folks I climb with give excellent belays and happily follow. You don't have to lead to be a climber. Climbing is just another way to enjoy wildness. Climb with joy and an open heart, and you will be centered. PM me if you want to trip to Tucson and schweet climbing in a couple weeks. I'm headed back to my Arizona haunts for a good friend's wedding and would enjoy some sunshine climbs. Damn cold here already, and I'm not thrilled with early season thin and wet ice.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jk told you that day at smith out right to your face that the anchor you set was unsafe and offered to teach you to do it right YOU BLEW HIM OFF LIKE IT WAS NO BIG DEAL.

 

I want to point out that I realy care about you anna. BUT if you want to learn you have to let people teach you.

 

when you went with shred and mntranger I told you I didn't want to go you said you wanted to lead, I said i did not because I did not feel safe. I was there that was what I said.

 

I am sorry if you have taken anything I have said here the wrong way or personaly. we are all learning. I am glad you are not dead. I hope you do climb again. Please turn on your pm's.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

when you went with shred and mntranger I told you I didn't want to go you said you wanted to lead, I said i did not because I did not feel safe. I was there that was what I said

 

[Confused][Confused]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You and me at castle rock with shred mntranger highlander and tex right????

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

quote:

Originally posted by Tyrone Shoes:

Trask on the other hand... well, if I could I would personaly Neuter him. I could do it so he wouldn't even feel it.

You're as full of shit as a Christmas goose. The way I see it, you're probably well acquainted with other men's balls, because with your shitty attitude towards women, I'm sure you've never slept with one. Have a great evening asseyes.

 

[ 11-02-2002, 08:17 PM: Message edited by: trask ]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Anna

If you do go back and climb, hire a certified guide, for one on one instruction, just a suggestion (I have done this a few times). I know little of rock climbing and when I get back into it I'm not going to power through it, but learn the right way the first time.

You can actually become a advocate for safe climbing, having been through this all and see that you can learn from this.

As for JK breaking your heart, thank goodness you had the moment to tell him later, and remember the ones that tell you do so because maybe they care, others would talk behind your back.

I am glad you were not hurt.

TTT

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

YOU BLEW HIM OFF LIKE IT WAS NO BIG DEAL.

 

BUT if you want to learn you have to let people teach you.

 

What are you talking about?

 

I was the one feeling unsafe at L-worth! I asked to climb with you and Greg and company from the getgo! I didn't lead Givler's nor did I want to...but at the end of the first day when we met up witcha all, Greg thought that I should give Saber a try. We didn't do it cuz of time constraints and yes, I was still interested in giving it a go on Sun. It's my stupid fault for attempting it. Give it a rest already...

 

What Jason said in his posts about my "character" is what broke my heart hey, kick me while I down would ya? I won't climb again but I'm still sorting out what went wrong with my setup...and guess what? I've been referencing Long's Anchor book that I bought one his suggestion after that day at Smith-go figure...now leave me alone.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

your voice, your coice... too bad though realy. I was trying to be a friend to you. what use is a friend to whom you can not tell the truth?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Anna

 

Keep in mind that the experience you shared isn't only about you.

 

Your experience is a vehical that brings to light a larger bigger issue regarding safety and attitude.

 

Your only getting hung here half as much as you think you are.

 

This is a discussion about peoples attitude towards learning and self assessment.

 

You have admitted your wrong, good for you, but you only need to do it once, so stop reliving the mistake. Regroup and move on.

 

Take a side and contribute to this discussion.

 

I sincerley hope you don't stop climbing due to your experience and you better not base that decision on what's written on this website.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A,

 

Now is not the time to curl up in a hedgehog-like ball to advice and/or criticism, or throw your hands up and say, "I'm quitting." I know that I'm working with only two data points here - your own assessment of your experience, and Kruger's anecdote from the Smith trip, but it doesn't appear to me that a lot of learning and growth went on between those 2 trips.

 

Actually, someone made the call back as far as Page One of this interminable topic that you made a poor judgement call regarding your own skills. Sure, it's a blow to the ego when someone says, 'You fucked up,' in no uncertain terms - as explicitely explained by Mr. Shoes and Chips up above - if they are in a position of experience or supervision - i.e. instructor- then they are well within their rights to call you on the carpet, so you do not create a hazard to yourslf or others. The teachers I look back the most fondly on are the ones who were the toughest on me - those who weren't - I remember neither them nor their lessons.

 

Likewise, experienced climbers often behave the same way, and can be crass or aggressive when they see people puuting themselves in harm's way - Honestly - if I see people making mistakes while climbing, I assess what the likelihood that they will take advice is, and either give it or walk away. I've responded to people with everything from a polite, 'You may want to try this...' to "You're a shithead, and I don't want to be around to render first aid," depending on their response to advice. Sure, I can be an asshole, too.

 

And if someone asks for advice, I give it, to the best of my knowledge. Hell, I teach and have guided a little - I can't help it. But I also know that I can't be responsible for everyone around me, nor should I try to be - we are out there putting ourselves in risky positions - it's how we mitigate those risks that will have a bearing on our lives and those of our partners.

 

A goal for you now should be to take ignorance and bad habits and replace them with knowledge and good habits. And to assess the 'why I climb' question. What do you want to get from climbing, what have you received from it before? Is leading a part of what gives you what you want?

 

Remember, the more you know, the better it gets.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am glad to see that many of the people who have relevent and informed experience are connecting on the heart of this matter. Coddling is not the proper approach here, and getting upset is not either. Read through the posts and try your best to 'see' that people care, and it takes a stern voice to render that care sometimes. jkrueger happened to dust the fingerprints off some past experience that had your name written all over it. Like it's been highlighted, you need to listen to the people who are offering advice. Tough love hurts, consider it an 'intervention'. People give interventions to friends to HELP them. So ya, I have not climbed with you either (Hi snoboy), but I still see the value in you as a person. Print off the discussion and highlite the stuff that makes sense, whether you like it or not, (leave out the nonsense from guys like trask though) and try and distill the theme here. Read Necronomimcons posting, Glaciers, SHoes, Muffy, There is something there, you NEED to see it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Snoboy. This has not so much to do with making a mistake. It is about the mistakes being made due to improper training and experience and NOT listening to others when they blatently point it out to you. It is about NOT assessing your own skills and knowledge and it's about embellishing them, which never helps.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Sign in to follow this  

×