Alpine_Tom Posted June 21, 2001 Share Posted June 21, 2001 According to Timothy Egan, in "The Good Rain" more public land is defaced by RVs than by mining. (I don't know where he got the figures, the book isn't footnoted.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nolanr Posted June 22, 2001 Share Posted June 22, 2001 I read that book, and damn it got me fired up. Same as his other one, Lasso the Wind or something like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willstrickland Posted June 22, 2001 Share Posted June 22, 2001 quote: Originally posted by Eerie: Dru - that f-ing lame man. If you're referring to Dru's "active resistance" stance consider yourself a big freakin' hypocrite. Why? Because if it weren't for active resistance against bullshit taxes back in the 1700's we'd still be having crumpets and tea if you get my drift. Personally I just avoid the snowmobile conflicts, just like I avoided the heli-served backcountry areas when I lived (snowboarded) in Utah. I protested the heli issue through the official channels, which didn't accomplish much (big surprise with the amount of money involved.)I do oppose snowmobiles, dirt-bikes, and recreational 4x4ing because it's a wasteful use of polluting energy. If dirt-bikes were regulated to the extent that snowmobiles are I'd be a happy camper (or climber as the case might be). If you want to see some serious unregulated enviornmental destruction in a very sensitive area just go to the San Rafael desert on easter weekend...more damn 2 stroke dirt bikes than you can sugar the tanks of. Since it's BLM land, there's nothing approaching active regulation. While it doesn't cause much conflict with other recreational users (this place is REMOTE) it leaves lasting environmental destruction. The only solution I see is to lead by example. Go up to the Ingrahm on a free day and pack out a bunch of crap (pun clearly intended) and let everyone see what you are doing, chest beating is a good thing here. I have an idea about the parking/snomobile loading thing too: There's an "aisle" in the lot right? How hard is it to back your truck/trailer into the "aisle" and then load your snomobile? Seems like a reasonable solution to me, the use of space is maximized and everyone is able to meet their goals. But, I wouldn't know what these lots look like because I hate snomobiles in the backcountry and avoid them at all costs. Damn, I've got way too much time on my hands to be firing off these diatribes...I better get some work done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eerie Posted June 22, 2001 Share Posted June 22, 2001 wills I was referring to dru's "active resistance" ploy. He did add one of those winky face things so my belief is he was mentioning the ploy as something of a joke. As to my being a freakin hypocrite try this one out... snowmobiles & oppressive taxes : apples & oranges. I don't know how your idea of the 'loading area' would work at snoparks it sounds good though. My personal experiences sledding have been at a private logging area in the far north cascades and late season Canyon Creek Rd. C.C.R., I guess was a snopark but there were only 4 other rigs, all sledders, up there since it was late season. Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daylward Posted June 22, 2001 Share Posted June 22, 2001 SUMMARY: Points: + : pro snowmobile/ORV, - : pro hiking/climbing, % : pro nothing -Snowmobilers make trash in the wilderness -Snowmobilers have a bad mentality -Snowmobiles are loud, obnoxious, destroy the wilderness experience for everyone for miles around them, and are extremely efficient at hauling great quantities of trash into the backcountry, and leaving it behind smoldering in their firepits for others to enjoy. -Snowmobilers exercise poor judgement +Snowmobilers are clean +There is a lot of vandalism and trash on hiking trails +Snowmobiles can haul lots of trash out of the backcountry +Non-snowmobilers don't know that snowmobiles don't use 10W-40 -Snowmobilers have trashed the Gold Creek sno-park with beer cans and 2-stroke oil containers -Snowmobilers don't respect wilderness areas -Snowmobilers don't know where they are (get lost easily) -Two-stroke engines are efficient only at polluting (compared to hikers and four-stroke engines) +A minority of snowmobilers are obnoxious -Snowmobilers exercise poor judgement with crevasses -Snowmobiles and ORV's adversely affect others' wilderness experience much more so than hikers +Climbers and hikers drive cars to their destinations; those that complain about ORV's are therefore hypocrites -ORV's are dangerous +Everyone has the right do use the mountains as they see fit without regard for others +Roads and logging have far more environmental impact than snowmobiles and even other ORV's +People concerned about the environment are hypocrites +Snowmobiles are fun -Snowmobiles suck +Climbers are elitist snobs -Snowmobiles cause soil compaction which is un-American +We all pay taxes, therefore we should share the land +Climbers destroy wilderness (e.g., Everest base camp) -ORV's destroy wilderness (e.g., trashed areas in Washington State) -Climbers and hikers have a more environmentally-sound wilderness ethic -Snowmobilers prefer Old Milwaukee beer +Snowmobilers prefer Old Milwaukee beer -Some jetskiers are assholes to kayakers +gregm does not advocate murder +gregm is a hypocrite for using snowmobiles despite his contempt for them %Climbers and other users of the outdoors rape our mother earth, rendering it useless for pictures -Groups that use the outdoors facilitate its preservation +Everyone is entitled to their differing views; everyone has a right to use the outdoors +Two-stroke engines have more bang for the weight than four-stroke engines +Snowmobiles are limited to a very small subset of areas anyway +Snowmobilers and climbers/hikers must support each other to ensure continued access for everyone -Jon is a mediator -tomrogers is a troller -Nolanr is a sucker +The Easton Glacier is the only one where snowmobilers are allowed, so there are plenty of other places to go to avoid them -Snowmobiles do more damage to the enivironment than hikers/climbers +Snowmobilers have a separate ORV sno-park pass and pay the same gas tax as users of improved roads -Snowmobiles suck -Dubya lets Willie's rule of no snowmobiles in Grand Teton and Yellowstone stand for now -Photography development harms the environment -Snowmobiles suck -More snowmobilers get caught in avalanches than skiers or climbers or hikers +Snowmobilers put more money into cleanup and facility improvement than hikers and climbers -Active resistance is good +Everyone should pitch in to clean up their acts, and regulation of all activities is good -ORV's cause damage to more land than mining Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.